Non-IT News Thread
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@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
it just says a lot that most Americans gauge success of congress based on how many laws they pass.
They do? Where is that they you are talking about? Most people I've talked to agree that more laws, other than an ultimate law (such as the outright outlawing of guns) rarely seem to do anything about the problems we have today. Anything short of that (and even that) when we don't enforce the laws that already exist is just mindless dribble, more often dribble that just empowers someone else to stick their hand in pockets even more - Obama care (now the uninsured get to pay the government a fee because they are uninsured.. yeah that makes sense!)
Passing laws and management are two different things, you can make all the rules you want, but if they're not followed, improperly followed, too vague to follow, or there's no money to follow them, then they're useless.
Agreed.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about? Most people I've talked to agree that more laws, other than an ultimate law (such as the outright outlawing of guns) rarely seem to do anything about the problems we have today. Anything short of that (and even that) when we don't enforce the laws that already exist is just mindless dribble
I'd actually say that it's much worse when you really think about how things are done today. "The rule of law" has no meaning anymore. According to the laws every single person in any US jurisdiction are all felons. So, what do you get when the law is literally not able to be enforced? Us (pun intended.)
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about?
It's something I've seen a lot of. Just because you don't talk to enough of the right people or read it, does not mean it doesn't happen. It is something people on the right tend to notice, however:
"Voters tend to believe a lot of myths about how American government works: things like the majority should always have its way, that popular ideas automatically deserve “up or down” votes and that Congress is more “productive” when it passes lots of laws. " Source
And that's just one example, and that was by googling: "success of congress based on laws passed", there are many other people who mention this, and as I said, mostly on the right to far right. I have, however, actually seen hyper liberals say this stuff on Facebook, typically doing something such as comparing number of laws passed by a Democratic Congress vs Republican one, and suggesting that more laws means something is getting done.
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@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about?
It's something I've seen a lot of. Just because you don't talk to enough of the right people or read it, does not mean it doesn't happen. It is something people on the right tend to notice, however:
"Voters tend to believe a lot of myths about how American government works: things like the majority should always have its way, that popular ideas automatically deserve “up or down” votes and that Congress is more “productive” when it passes lots of laws. " Source
And that's just one example, and that was by googling: "success of congress based on laws passed", there are many other people who mention this, and as I said, mostly on the right to far right. I have, however, actually seen hyper liberals say this stuff on Facebook, typically doing something such as comparing number of laws passed by a Democratic Congress vs Republican one, and suggesting that more laws means something is getting done.
I have always equated more laws with less freedom... I have enough common sense to believe there are some laws that are worth having. But why should it be illegal to carry ice cream cones in my back pocket on Sunday?
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@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about?
It's something I've seen a lot of. Just because you don't talk to enough of the right people or read it, does not mean it doesn't happen. It is something people on the right tend to notice, however:
"Voters tend to believe a lot of myths about how American government works: things like the majority should always have its way, that popular ideas automatically deserve “up or down” votes and that Congress is more “productive” when it passes lots of laws. " Source
And that's just one example, and that was by googling: "success of congress based on laws passed", there are many other people who mention this, and as I said, mostly on the right to far right. I have, however, actually seen hyper liberals say this stuff on Facebook, typically doing something such as comparing number of laws passed by a Democratic Congress vs Republican one, and suggesting that more laws means something is getting done.
I suppose those same people believe that we're in greater danger today because we haven't passed Patriot Act II or made all guns illegal, etc.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about?
It's something I've seen a lot of. Just because you don't talk to enough of the right people or read it, does not mean it doesn't happen. It is something people on the right tend to notice, however:
"Voters tend to believe a lot of myths about how American government works: things like the majority should always have its way, that popular ideas automatically deserve “up or down” votes and that Congress is more “productive” when it passes lots of laws. " Source
And that's just one example, and that was by googling: "success of congress based on laws passed", there are many other people who mention this, and as I said, mostly on the right to far right. I have, however, actually seen hyper liberals say this stuff on Facebook, typically doing something such as comparing number of laws passed by a Democratic Congress vs Republican one, and suggesting that more laws means something is getting done.
I suppose those same people believe that we're in greater danger today because we haven't passed Patriot Act II or made all guns illegal, etc.
If you're talking about people who consider it bad not enough laws passed, they tend to be against the Patriot Act and for stricter gun control.
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@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about?
It's something I've seen a lot of. Just because you don't talk to enough of the right people or read it, does not mean it doesn't happen. It is something people on the right tend to notice, however:
"Voters tend to believe a lot of myths about how American government works: things like the majority should always have its way, that popular ideas automatically deserve “up or down” votes and that Congress is more “productive” when it passes lots of laws. " Source
And that's just one example, and that was by googling: "success of congress based on laws passed", there are many other people who mention this, and as I said, mostly on the right to far right. I have, however, actually seen hyper liberals say this stuff on Facebook, typically doing something such as comparing number of laws passed by a Democratic Congress vs Republican one, and suggesting that more laws means something is getting done.
I suppose those same people believe that we're in greater danger today because we haven't passed Patriot Act II or made all guns illegal, etc.
If you're talking about people who consider it bad not enough laws passed, they tend to be against the Patriot Act and for stricter gun control.
eh? so you're saying these people are
more laws = good
Patriot Act = bad
fewer guns = good?Huh - I would have gone for the trifecta of good for those people = more laws = less freedom, which is what the Patriot Act is, and few guns also = less freedom.
But I guess that's really a different discussion.
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I've never equated guns to freedom. I understand how it could be "stand in my way and I'll shoot you" or "I've got a gun to protect myself" but none of these laws are going to stop people from doing something illegally if it's what they want to do.
Does the Mafia just give up selling drugs because it's illegal? Of course not. So what is to stop someone from murdering someone else. Some words on paper?
Of course not.
Laws are just a way to punish people who are doing things that are "illegal" adding new laws are often added because people are getting away with something in a way that couldn't be prosecuted before.
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What?
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
I've never equated guns to freedom.
I was with you until here and didn't get the rest.
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Sorry I must be tired.
Laws only stop people who are law abiding. Anyone who wants to do something badly enough will do it no matter what (the law says).
For example the law says I can't murder a person, but could easily commit murder. Adding new laws are just creating new avenues for lawyers to prosecute people who are breaking the existing laws. (more often than not).
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The whole reason that the second amendment is there is to protect your freedom. Granted today the populous having weapons really doesn't protect it much from the tyranny of an oppressive government, because the government has so many more resources to buy bigger and better guns/weapons/tactical gear, etc - but back in the 1700's that was the point of it. It's purely about freedom.
Now, does it mean that you can do bad things with it - oh hell yeah it does - but is that a good enough reason to remove your freedom stick?
Laws are a way to punish people for doing something illegal? I thought laws are what dictated that something was illegal - it might go so far as to say, when you break the law, then here is the punishment - but not always.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
The whole reason that the second amendment is there is to protect your freedom. Granted today the populous having weapons really doesn't protect it much from the tyranny of an oppressive government, because the government has so many more resources to buy bigger and better guns/weapons/tactical gear, etc - but back in the 1700's that was the point of it. It's purely about freedom.
You may want to look into the historical relevance of the 2nd amendment. It wasn't about freedom, per-say, it was a means of ensuring a militia was armed and had the ability to be called on a moments notice. Just after the Revolutionary war we had a money problem and had issues finding funds to deploy and support a national army.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Laws are a way to punish people for doing something illegal?
<snip>Only if the person doing them gets caught.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Sorry I must be tired.
Laws only stop people who are law abiding. Anyone who wants to do something badly enough will do it no matter what (the law says).
For example the law says I can't murder a person, but could easily commit murder. Adding new laws are just creating new avenues for lawyers to prosecute people who are breaking the existing laws. (more often than not).
The original laws are there, not to stop law abiding, but to give righteousness to the law abiding in prosecuting those who break them.
Why do we need more laws? that's a great question - a criminal certainly doesn't care if he's breaking one law or 100, he's doin' what he wants. The problem is that we aren't prosecuting them fully against the laws we already have. We don't execute the laws already on the books - but no.. we can't fix that - so we'll just create new laws, which will be just as ineffective, but hey... the above mentioned people will be happy because they think we're doing something when we pass new laws, so we'll pass new laws.
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Yeah most laws today aren't doing much of anything useful. (read most of them) Some protect wildlife habitats, or other good things.
But most are just completely useless, wasteful of resources, and a means of profiteering from the public.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Yeah most laws today aren't doing much of anything useful. (read most of them) Some protect wildlife habitats, or other good things.
Don't make me tell you about the owls and the stupidity of "protecting" them by banning clear-cutting.
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@travisdh1 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Yeah most laws today aren't doing much of anything useful. (read most of them) Some protect wildlife habitats, or other good things.
Don't make me tell you about the owls and the stupidity of "protecting" them by banning clear-cutting.
Can you share some more there?
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
it just says a lot that most Americans gauge success of congress based on how many laws they pass.
They do? Where is that they you are talking about? Most people I've talked to agree that more laws, other than an ultimate law (such as the outright outlawing of guns) rarely seem to do anything about the problems we have today. Anything short of that (and even that) when we don't enforce the laws that already exist is just mindless dribble, more often dribble that just empowers someone else to stick their hand in pockets even more - Obama care (now the uninsured get to pay the government a fee because they are uninsured.. yeah that makes sense!)
Passing laws and management are two different things, you can make all the rules you want, but if they're not followed, improperly followed, too vague to follow, or there's no money to follow them, then they're useless.
Agreed.
That's actually an oft quoted statistic by the media to say that Congress is useless. It's actually just about the only measurement of Congress I've ever heard mentioned.
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@tonyshowoff said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
They do? Where is that they you are talking about?
It's something I've seen a lot of. Just because you don't talk to enough of the right people or read it, does not mean it doesn't happen. It is something people on the right tend to notice, however:
"Voters tend to believe a lot of myths about how American government works: things like the majority should always have its way, that popular ideas automatically deserve “up or down” votes and that Congress is more “productive” when it passes lots of laws. " Source
And that's just one example, and that was by googling: "success of congress based on laws passed", there are many other people who mention this, and as I said, mostly on the right to far right. I have, however, actually seen hyper liberals say this stuff on Facebook, typically doing something such as comparing number of laws passed by a Democratic Congress vs Republican one, and suggesting that more laws means something is getting done.
It's true. I never hear Americans talk about the government with correct information. People say "democracy" but America is not and was explicitly not to be a democracy. The founding fathers thought that democracy was a terrible idea (and i agree.) The American system is very anti-Democracy, yet the people who espouse it always point to the founders... apparently knowing nothing about them.
Or that America was founding on religious freedom. WTF. America was founding specifically to allow for the non-religious freedom. It's the anti-religious freedom country. The pilgrims had too much religious freedom in Europe (Holland specifically) and left because they could not maintain their cult when their kids had the freedom to explore other religions and see how happy people were living outside of their hate filled community. Maryland was founded to be a Catholic colony, apart from the church of England.
