Why CPAPs Need to Be Available
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@Nic said:
In general, getting a CPAP right this minute isn't a life and death situation, which is why it can take so long. But I agree that the process could be faster and easier. At least a loaner right after your sleep study until you get a permanent one.
Problem is, for many people it really is life or death. Regulating something that might be life or death like it is a casual device isn't dangerously reckless and a complete disregard for human life no matter how infrequent it is.
Getting your first one is rarely life or death. But getting one later easily could be.
It's the people, typically, who develop central sleep apnea, not mechanical sleep apnea, who must have them no matter what. Thankfully at least I qualify for emergency power so that if the power goes out I get mine back earlier since I can't sleep until it comes back on.
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Why does @MattSpeller and @scottalanmiller feel that a CPAP needs to be prescribed?
I'm all for the device itself having to be created under regulation for safety - but here's my question - if a person who quote unquote doesn't need one uses one, will they die?
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@Dashrender said:
Why does @MattSpeller and @scottalanmiller feel that a CPAP needs to be prescribed?
I don't feel that. I feel that it's completely unethical to have a doctor get to hold your life hostage when life saving devices are available and well known.
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@Dashrender IMHO it's less about a specific device than it is about all of them. I am so unfamiliar with how it works down there that I'm only muddying the waters, I'll stay out of it.
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@Dashrender said:
I'm all for the device itself having to be created under regulation for safety - but here's my question - if a person who quote unquote doesn't need one uses one, will they die?
No, they are completely safe to use when not needed. It is only when you need one and don't get one that there is risk. Prolonged use could create a dependency, potentially, I suppose. But there is no real risk.
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Usually it isn't immediate life or death. Yes over the long term it will shorten your life and make you die of a heart attack, but usually you've been living with it for a while before you even get diagnosed.
There are some possible negative side effects, such as having the pressure too high and causing central apnea.
The thing you have to remember is that you and I, Scott, are 3+ standard deviations above the mean intelligence, so we're perfectly capable of purchasing and setting up our own system. The other 99.9% of people aren't that smart
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@Nic said:
Usually it isn't immediate life or death. Yes over the long term it will shorten your life and make you die of a heart attack, but usually you've been living with it for a while before you even get diagnosed.
There are some possible negative side effects, such as having the pressure too high and causing central apnea.
The thing you have to remember is that you and I, Scott, are 3+ standard deviations above the mean intelligence, so we're perfectly capable of purchasing and setting up our own system. The other 99.9% of people aren't that smart
I'd be curious where I fell...
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@Nic said:
The thing you have to remember is that you and I, Scott, are 3+ standard deviations above the mean intelligence, so we're perfectly capable of purchasing and setting up our own system. The other 99.9% of people aren't that smart
Other than being made intentionally obtuse, they are REALLY easy. There is only one setting. Just set the number that was on your old one, or make it feel similar, and away you go.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
The thing you have to remember is that you and I, Scott, are 3+ standard deviations above the mean intelligence, so we're perfectly capable of purchasing and setting up our own system. The other 99.9% of people aren't that smart
Other than being made intentionally obtuse, they are REALLY easy. There is only one setting. Just set the number that was on your old one, or make it feel similar, and away you go.
True, but you do have to make sure you know the number that you're supposed to be at, and have a mask that fits properly. Again, easy for us, not so easy for the huddled masses
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@Nic said:
True, but you do have to make sure you know the number that you're supposed to be at, and have a mask that fits properly. Again, easy for us, not so easy for the huddled masses
Do either of those matter though? I can use a higher number or a different mask pretty easily.
But more importantly, neither of those services were provided to me the last time that I got a CPAP. So if those are reasons, they've already failed.
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The number matters because if it is too low then you still have apneas, and if it is too high then you can swallow air or cause central apnea.
The mask fitting matters because if you have leaks then you don't get good pressure and have apneas, often without realizing it.
It's too bad you didn't get either services, so it sounds like you got the disadvantages of a regulated and unregulated system combined. Reminds me of my favorite quote about long distance relationships - they combine all the disadvantages of being in a relationship with all the disadvantages of being single
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@Nic said:
The number matters because if it is too low then you still have apneas, and if it is too high then you can swallow air or cause central apnea.
I got central apnea from not having one. Swallowing air doesn't kill you. I'd weight those as inconsequential risks.
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@Nic said:
The mask fitting matters because if you have leaks then you don't get good pressure and have apneas, often without realizing it.
It's trivially easy to fit, though. Is air going all over instead of in your nose? It doesn't fit.
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@scottalanmiller well if you can also get central apnea from the pressure being too high, then I'd say the risks are equal, barring any other data on the frequency. Plus if you'd gotten a machine that wasn't setup right and wasn't fixing your sleep apnea, then you still be at risk.
Still I mostly agree with you, that the process for getting a CPAP is overly cumbersome.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@Nic said:
Usually it isn't immediate life or death. Yes over the long term it will shorten your life and make you die of a heart attack, but usually you've been living with it for a while before you even get diagnosed.
There are some possible negative side effects, such as having the pressure too high and causing central apnea.
The thing you have to remember is that you and I, Scott, are 3+ standard deviations above the mean intelligence, so we're perfectly capable of purchasing and setting up our own system. The other 99.9% of people aren't that smart
I'd be curious where I fell...
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller well if you can also get central apnea from the pressure being too high, then I'd say the risks are equal, barring any other data on the frequency. Plus if you'd gotten a machine that wasn't setup right and wasn't fixing your sleep apnea, then you still be at risk.
The risks are "equal" in the total risk, yes. But the risk of one is the fault of healthcare. The fault of the other is the fault of the person hurting themselves. Therefore I see one risk as major, the other as unimportant. Never sacrifice the guilty to protect the innocent.
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True - in an ideal world people could acquire one themselves and then opt for help getting it configured if they need it.
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Letting people put themselves at risk is not the fault of doctors or the government. Barring them from healthcare, is. They are very, very different things.
What if it was something like food? Because some people (me, actually) might overeat the government decides to withhold food and only certified medical offices can sign for you to own food. The "purpose" is to control quantity, but they don't enforce quantity, only create a situation where you have to pay someone in order to get access to food and sometimes, by happenstance, someone might end up without legal access to food for a period longer than they will survive.
Sounds crazy when you think of it in those terms. But it is the same logic - let random people starve (very rare but a risk) in order to "decide" what is best for others who are harming themselves.
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@PSX_Defector said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@Nic said:
Usually it isn't immediate life or death. Yes over the long term it will shorten your life and make you die of a heart attack, but usually you've been living with it for a while before you even get diagnosed.
There are some possible negative side effects, such as having the pressure too high and causing central apnea.
The thing you have to remember is that you and I, Scott, are 3+ standard deviations above the mean intelligence, so we're perfectly capable of purchasing and setting up our own system. The other 99.9% of people aren't that smart
I'd be curious where I fell...
reminds me of a favorite insult that people on the receiving end won't get: "you're at the top of the bell curve!"
