Preparing to Be Disconnected...Completely
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Hubtech said:
@Hubtech Engineers of any flavor.
Engineers favour degrees but do not require them. I came from an engineering background and engineers are not a "government union" like the others mentioned and can become engineers without a degree. At least in the US, there is no college requirement for engineering.
Most states require Civil Engineers to have a bachelors degree and pass state certification.
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@Hubtech said:
oh. then nevermind. sorry to all those schmucks who have them ey!!!??
Well my whole point was what GOOD job requires a degree? Tons of bad jobs require a degree - basically all ones where you are forced to be a "union" worker with the government protecting your job because the job fails to stand on its own in the US.
Nursing does not require a degree, BTW, it is only because of the massive surplus of nurses out of work and getting degrees to make themselves more employable have created a market where you "need" a degree just because there is little way to differentiate yourself from others in your field.
That's one of the things that make all of these jobs suck - they are all "wellfare" jobs. Basically you buy a degree and the government "owes" you a job by way of guaranteeing only people who paid to get the degree get the limited jobs. These jobs lack the fulfillment that what, to me, any good job would offer.
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@scottalanmiller said:
What good career does college help with?
At some point, the definition of good needs to be explored. While I have a good career by most measures, I find myself looking for something I'm passionate about. I seem to be unable to get to that point in IT, despite the fact that I deeply enjoy a lot of parts of it. So I need to think carefully about how to find in IT what I'm passionate about or explore new careers that might generate that passion as well.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Hubtech said:
oh. then nevermind. sorry to all those schmucks who have them ey!!!??
Man, Why do I go to the doctor then? Why have an engineer spec a house?
Because of government regulations. Without them, would you? When is the last time you talked to a doctor and felt that they were more qualified than you to diagnose what was wrong?
Doctors are a great example - they aren't, by and large, doing a good job. The government has to make a union like situation where the federal government takes away your rights to medicine and healthcare unless you get it through their approved channels. Doctors don't earn their keep.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Engineers favour degrees but do not require them. I came from an engineering background and engineers are not a "government union" like the others mentioned and can become engineers without a degree. At least in the US, there is no college requirement for engineering.
You're smokin' crack.
I do not know a single engineer that has not been through the engineering program at 4 year school.
Used to could? Sure, but not for 30 years barring the exception to prove the rule as it is said.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Doctors are a great example - they aren't, by and large, doing a good job.
What doctors are you seeing? mine are great.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Most states require Civil Engineers to have a bachelors degree and pass state certification.
Civil, yes. Which is only one of the vast array of engineering degrees and categories.
Manufacturing, industrial, chemical, mechanical, automotive, aeronautic, electrical, computer, manufacturing systems, etc. do not require degrees.
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@scottalanmiller said:
When is the last time you talked to a doctor and felt that they were more qualified than you to diagnose what was wrong?
Uh... every time I go to a doctor. Isn't that how Jobs died?
By most measures Canada does not even get the best ones here because we don't pay them enough. -
oh, and how the flying hell does this have anything to do with being disconnected? I wish you the best in your disconnection from IT. I did it for 7 days on my honeymoon 2 years ago. The first day or two kind of sucked, but after that i was able to enjoy myself! I just let my clients know two months ahead of time that i was going to be gone, that they should send me an email if an emergency happened, and that i'd check my email the day i got off of the ship. I had a local fella on queue and forwarded my email to him to discern "emergency" status. Didn't have any emergencies!
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@scottalanmiller said:
Nursing does not require a degree
This varies by state. These are state licenses.
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@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller said:
What good career does college help with?
At some point, the definition of good needs to be explored. While I have a good career by most measures, I find myself looking for something I'm passionate about. I seem to be unable to get to that point in IT, despite the fact that I deeply enjoy a lot of parts of it. So I need to think carefully about how to find in IT what I'm passionate about or explore new careers that might generate that passion as well.
I find a lot of things very exciting. But routinely I find that needing a degree is a great way for me to define what a bad job looks like. Once a job requires you to "pay" for your job rather than to earn it by being qualified or good at it - it sucks. Now, lots of people have no desire to excel or be rewarded for hard work. For those people, generally the polar opposite of IT folk, those jobs are ideal. They pay well and you don't have to be up to par. All you have to be is "good enough" and that's all that there is to it.
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Think of it as "excelling" jobs. Those like IT, business, artist, musician, writer, professor, etc. Jobs where it comes down only to "how good are you." You do well by excelling.
Compare them to "good enough" or "minimum effort" jobs like doctor, civil engineer, etc. where you pay a huge fee to a university, pay a small fee to an accreditation board, pass a test (maybe hard, maybe not), possibly go through some juvenile hazing (looking at you, doctors) and then meet a "minimum qualification" stating that you are "good enough" to do your job.
I know that to many people, maybe most people, being "good enough" is literally "good enough". But if you want to love your job, I can't imagine that being the case.
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You can downvote it, but can you honestly say that you'd be proud of being a doctor where you get your job by having bought it and having the government withhold healthcare from people who don't pay you instead of doing a job where you earn your keep by actually being good at it?
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@scottalanmiller this has nothing to do with his thread scott.
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The vast majority of jobs do not require a degree. Has anyone noticed that I stopped some time ago calling people "IT Pros" and use "IT Practitioner" instead? It's because I feel that the "pro" designation, generally tied to doctors and such that don't earn their keep in society, is too low of a bar and makes a negative statement that really does not apply to IT. In IT you have to be good to move up. It's competition that lets you move up.
Same as business. Running a business the only barrier is how good you do at it. It's open. Do a good job and you will do well. Do a bad job and you will do poorly. You can't say that about accredited fields. If you are really, really awful eventually they might, in some cases, take away your right to work. But that is very, very rare and normally only tied to illegal or immoral activities.
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@Hubtech said:
@scottalanmiller this has nothing to do with his thread scott.
Yes, it was a continuing part of the conversation. You talking about derailments is where it completely left the original conversation. That is the true derailment.
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Who else has unplugged from work for any period of time? How'd you do it? Did you get outside help? are you a one man show? What were you doing that required you to unplug?
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@Hubtech said:
oh, and how the flying hell does this have anything to do with being disconnected?
How does talking about changing careers have anything to do with it? I was involved, and still am, in the converstation. YOu seem to be obsessed with leaving the conversation completely and discussing threading. This is utterly disconnected to the ongoing conversation that we were having.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Hubtech said:
oh, and how the flying hell does this have anything to do with being disconnected?
How does talking about changing careers have anything to do with it? I was involved, and still am, in the converstation. YOu seem to be obsessed with leaving the conversation completely and discussing threading. This is utterly disconnected to the ongoing conversation that we were having.
No the topic drifted significantly and then hit on your sore spot of the uselessness of college and you went down a well trod path that you had no need to bring up again in this thread.
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@MattSpeller said:
Uh... every time I go to a doctor. Isn't that how Jobs died?
By most measures Canada does not even get the best ones here because we don't pay them enough.I know few people with that experience. Although it is completely different between the US and Canada.
As someone left to die with a ruptured appendix by a doctor who couldn't be bothered to look at the obvious symptoms I'm pretty sensitive about how doctors are allowed to override patient diagnosis. But nearly everyone I know uses doctors (in the US) purely as a gateway to needed care, not to skills or knowledge.
