Weight Loss Surgery?
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20 years certainly isn't enough, for the GMOs. I'm not really interested in a long debate about the others stuff, but I'm not really interested in volunteering as a guinea pig for GMOs just so that Monsanto and others can make more money. My dad was a pioneer in the biotech field (if you google my last name Tolstoshev, you'll see his name pop up) so I've got a very good understanding of biotech and genetic therapy. It's not quite as simple as flipping genes on and off - it's very complicated. Epigenetics is just getting started as a field, so we have no idea the long term effects. Anyway, feel free to eat however you like.
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As someone who grew up off grid and we grew everything from heirloom seeds, as in we kept some of our seed back for the next planting, and had for YEARS, once we moved into the modern era (long long story). I We made our own cheese or traded with someone who did, ate meat that we processed our selves, eggs from chickens in our yard, chicken from our yard. Milk was still warm when I got it each morning, butter, buttermilk, ice cream was all made from that milk. Bacon and pork was done in our yard in the fall. I went from no food allergies to I can't eat hardly anything without getting sick.
Fast forward 20 year move to Africa for a year. When I got there I was allergic to tomatoes, wheat and various preservatives. Ate fresh (as in nothing that had been processed except ground down in a hand grinder or on a mortar with a pestle. No food allergies can eat anything I want.
Come home continued to eat what I want for a whole whopping 2 weeks. Then back to getting sick from everything. I can't have corn (or corn syrup or corn anything), tomatoes can't even touch them as I get acid burns, can't eat wheat, can't eat anything that has been bleached, no food coloring. Yeah that doesn't leave me much in today's food chain. I am lucky enough to live in a Mennonite community where they still do things by hand with heirloom seeds from OLD stock. Without that I would starve.
There is something in what we eat here in the states, Period end of story. Do I know for certain what it is, no but I have a pretty good idea.
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@Nic OK, but I am still curious by what mechanism GMOs are inherently more questionable or dangerous if they've got the same genes just specific ones made sure to be on or off, and how that's inherently more dangerous than blindly breeding without any testing of them at all. I don't inherently trust something because it's natural, even St. Anthony's Fire is natural, and arsenic, etc.
And Monsanto to me isn't a really good talking point, because other places genetically modify foods. They certainly do a lot of really seedy things from a business standpoint, but that doesn't automatically mean the product is equally as untrustworthy or dangerous.
I don't doubt your father is qualified, and no it isn't that simple, but that's a simple way of explaining. It is an early field, and I'm not saying to trust it blindly, but I am saying there is no other option in the long term, and I'm not saying we shouldn't test this stuff.
A lot of lies and bad information get put out there about GMOs by people wanting to sell things, and of course the opposite is true too, and I think the biggest problem is a lot of it gets lumped together to where any discussion always seems to fall into a black in white of super raw veganism-only-eating-what-grows-naturally and Lex Luther gets a bioengineering company.
Having said all that though, on the topic at hand, it seems to be that organic food has become an excuse for not losing weight for some people. I've seen a few people here and there online saying that they can't diet because they can't afford organic food, and obviously they're just making up an excuse, but it's interesting to me that organic is seen as inherently more healthy (in the sense it has things good for you in it), when engineered things often have more-of-whatever-said-food-is-supposed-to have.
I think this gives people also a false sense of what eating better is, because one could eat tons of organic candy, soda, and cake, etc and not really improve at all healthwise. I've seen obese vegetarians and vegans before, most of them eat a lot of stuff packed with carbs of course.
Having said all that (again), coming back to something you said before, the over use of antibiotics and the lack of investment in finding new ones (or real alternatives) is something that really bothers me and concerns me a lot, especially as someone who had a resistant form of TB that took a lot of drugs to get rid of, and I still wonder if all those antibiotics really messed with my long term health, beyond what the TB did obviously.
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@Minion-Queen said:
As someone who grew up off grid and we grew everything from heirloom seeds, as in we kept some of our seed back for the next planting, and had for YEARS, once we moved into the modern era (long long story).
I hope I'm not the only one who wants to hear this long long story, it sounds interesting as hell, now I can't stop thinking about it to read the rest of your post!
Fast forward 20 year move to Africa for a year.
Another interesting story embedded in here. I lived in South Africa briefly with a girl, until she broke up with me.
But she was pretty racist so I went to Russia (lol, whoops, Edit: I didn't go to Russia because she was racist, rather I was trying to say that's what I did afterwards, the two things aren't related).There is something in what we eat here in the states, Period end of story. Do I know for certain what it is, no but I have a pretty good idea.
I think it's something in wheat to be honest with you, I have no proof but that's an opinion I have.
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I'm not saying they are inherently unsafe. I'm just saying it is a new technology that isn't well understood, so those of us who are more careful are going to wait for better data that can only come from more long term studies.
Doctors used to tell us smoking was good for us. Asbestos was used for a long time before the dangers became apparent. Thalidomide looked like a wonder drug. I'm just willing to bet my health on 20 years of research.
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@Minion-Queen said:
As someone who grew up off grid and we grew everything from heirloom seeds, as in we kept some of our seed back for the next planting, and had for YEARS, once we moved into the modern era (long long story). I We made our own cheese or traded with someone who did, ate meat that we processed our selves, eggs from chickens in our yard, chicken from our yard. Milk was still warm when I got it each morning, butter, buttermilk, ice cream was all made from that milk. Bacon and pork was done in our yard in the fall. I went from no food allergies to I can't eat hardly anything without getting sick.
Fast forward 20 year move to Africa for a year. When I got there I was allergic to tomatoes, wheat and various preservatives. Ate fresh (as in nothing that had been processed except ground down in a hand grinder or on a mortar with a pestle. No food allergies can eat anything I want.
Come home continued to eat what I want for a whole whopping 2 weeks. Then back to getting sick from everything. I can't have corn (or corn syrup or corn anything), tomatoes can't even touch them as I get acid burns, can't eat wheat, can't eat anything that has been bleached, no food coloring. Yeah that doesn't leave me much in today's food chain. I am lucky enough to live in a Mennonite community where they still do things by hand with heirloom seeds from OLD stock. Without that I would starve.
There is something in what we eat here in the states, Period end of story. Do I know for certain what it is, no but I have a pretty good idea.
Agreed. They already know a lot of the gluten allergies have come from GMOs. No one used to have it much, now it is very very common.
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@Nic said:
I'm not saying they are inherently unsafe. I'm just saying it is a new technology that isn't well understood, so those of us who are more careful are going to wait for better data that can only come from more long term studies.
Doctors used to tell us smoking was good for us. Asbestos was used for a long time before the dangers became apparent. Thalidomide looked like a wonder drug. I'm just willing to bet my health on 20 years of research.
Well, I think we can certainly agree there. I see where you're coming from, absolutely, and I hope you see where I'm coming from with feeding 7+ billion people, especially with looming climate change. And while it's not exactly known how many people die each year because of lack of food, it is at least in the tens of millions some place.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Agreed. They already know a lot of the gluten allergies have come from GMOs. No one used to have it much, now it is very very common.
People also eat a hell of a lot more wheat and things with wheat flour in them. Plus also wheat isn't a GMO product, but it has changed a lot since the 1970s, due to increased selective breeding and cross breeding in order to increase yield.
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We already have enough food to feed the planet, but humanity doesn't have the will to distribute it evenly:
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world hunger facts 2002.htm#Does_the_world_produce_enough_food_to_feed_everyone -
@Nic said:
We already have enough food to feed the planet, but humanity doesn't have the will to distribute it evenly:
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world hunger facts 2002.htm#Does_the_world_produce_enough_food_to_feed_everyoneI agree with you, but it won't always be true, especially over the next century, and also without central planning (which people hate now) and with the rise of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps you starving African child" beliefs, there has to be a means to empower people to plant for their own communities, especially in places where crops cannot easily grow.
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@Nic said:
We already have enough food to feed the planet, but humanity doesn't have the will to distribute it evenly:
It's not that simple. Tons and tons is shipped to places where people are starving. The very act of attempting to distribute food to those less fortunate often creates the problem of them not getting food because it turns into the financial tool of those in power. So it actually does the opposite of intent (the foundation of irony, in case AJ is reading, but it isn't irony as it lacks other factors like coincidence) - by distributing food to the poor, we keep them hungry and poor.
Similar to sending GMO seeds to the poorest people. It sounds good, until you see that it makes them lose the processes that have traditionally allowed them to farm (owning the supply of their own seeds.)
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@tonyshowoff said:
I agree with you, but it won't always be true, especially over the next century, and also without central planning (which people hate now) and with the rise of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps you starving African child" beliefs, there has to be a means to empower people to plant for their own communities, especially in places where crops cannot easily grow.
That's the opposite of what is being seen. Africa is losing farmland, not gaining it. Political, agricultural, social and other factors are causing Africa to lose ground - literally and figuratively. South of the Sahara, anyway.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@tonyshowoff said:
I agree with you, but it won't always be true, especially over the next century, and also without central planning (which people hate now) and with the rise of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps you starving African child" beliefs, there has to be a means to empower people to plant for their own communities, especially in places where crops cannot easily grow.
That's the opposite of what is being seen. Africa is losing farmland, not gaining it. Political, agricultural, social and other factors are causing Africa to lose ground - literally and figuratively. South of the Sahara, anyway.
Africa is the only place though, nor the only applicable place to grow food, it's a popular example, but I'm saying essentially anywhere. Africa has a ton of problems, well beyond food, hell even if they had all the food they needed, and crops that were indestructible, people would still starve there because so many of the governments are absolutely corrupt, as I'm sure you know. I used the starving African child as an example of the Randian sociopathy that's become really common here in the US especially, but there are starving people elsewhere obviously.
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@Minion-Queen said:
As someone who grew up off grid and we grew everything from heirloom seeds, as in we kept some of our seed back for the next planting, and had for YEARS, once we moved into the modern era (long long story). I We made our own cheese or traded with someone who did, ate meat that we processed our selves, eggs from chickens in our yard, chicken from our yard. Milk was still warm when I got it each morning, butter, buttermilk, ice cream was all made from that milk. Bacon and pork was done in our yard in the fall. I went from no food allergies to I can't eat hardly anything without getting sick.
Fast forward 20 year move to Africa for a year. When I got there I was allergic to tomatoes, wheat and various preservatives. Ate fresh (as in nothing that had been processed except ground down in a hand grinder or on a mortar with a pestle. No food allergies can eat anything I want.
Come home continued to eat what I want for a whole whopping 2 weeks. Then back to getting sick from everything. I can't have corn (or corn syrup or corn anything), tomatoes can't even touch them as I get acid burns, can't eat wheat, can't eat anything that has been bleached, no food coloring. Yeah that doesn't leave me much in today's food chain. I am lucky enough to live in a Mennonite community where they still do things by hand with heirloom seeds from OLD stock. Without that I would starve.
There is something in what we eat here in the states, Period end of story. Do I know for certain what it is, no but I have a pretty good idea.
That sounds a lot like me, I can't eat or drink barely anything because if I do I am in severe pain. When I was first diagnosed I still was in denial about the whole thing. I ate Mexican and paid for it for an entire week. I now live on plain everything, since I can't have anything with acid in it, MSG, preservatives or nitrates. I've got pages and pages of things I can't have.
It really is amazing how I'm staying alive, because I'm not getting anything good in my body. And not to mention all the weight I've lost. Some people would say I'm to thin.
I really miss food!
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@BMarie said:
@Minion-Queen said:
As someone who grew up off grid and we grew everything from heirloom seeds, as in we kept some of our seed back for the next planting, and had for YEARS, once we moved into the modern era (long long story). I We made our own cheese or traded with someone who did, ate meat that we processed our selves, eggs from chickens in our yard, chicken from our yard. Milk was still warm when I got it each morning, butter, buttermilk, ice cream was all made from that milk. Bacon and pork was done in our yard in the fall. I went from no food allergies to I can't eat hardly anything without getting sick.
Fast forward 20 year move to Africa for a year. When I got there I was allergic to tomatoes, wheat and various preservatives. Ate fresh (as in nothing that had been processed except ground down in a hand grinder or on a mortar with a pestle. No food allergies can eat anything I want.
Come home continued to eat what I want for a whole whopping 2 weeks. Then back to getting sick from everything. I can't have corn (or corn syrup or corn anything), tomatoes can't even touch them as I get acid burns, can't eat wheat, can't eat anything that has been bleached, no food coloring. Yeah that doesn't leave me much in today's food chain. I am lucky enough to live in a Mennonite community where they still do things by hand with heirloom seeds from OLD stock. Without that I would starve.
There is something in what we eat here in the states, Period end of story. Do I know for certain what it is, no but I have a pretty good idea.
That sounds a lot like me, I can't eat or drink barely anything because if I do I am in severe pain. When I was first diagnosed I still was in denial about the whole thing. I ate Mexican and paid for it for an entire week. I now live on plain everything, since I can't have anything with acid in it, MSG, preservatives or nitrates. I've got pages and pages of things I can't have.
It really is amazing how I'm staying alive, because I'm not getting anything good in my body. And not to mention all the weight I've lost. Some people would say I'm to thin.
I really miss food!
I do too. My problem is everything I can eat is not good for me (lots of fatty food). I am losing weight but not fast enough for me. I also do have a Thyroid issue so it has taken a year or so to get my meds balanced
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This topic is so far off topic...
With that being said, my insurance will not cover the operation, so I am going to do everything that my insurance will cover, meeting with a nutritionist, a sleep study, etc.
Going to try to lose the weight on my own, and get as much guidance as I can along the way.
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@Aaron-Studer said:
This topic is so far off topic...
With that being said, my insurance will not cover the operation, so I am going to do everything that my insurance will cover, meeting with a nutritionist, a sleep study, etc.
Going to try to lose the weight on my own, and get as much guidance as I can along the way.
Yes it has. Sorry.... But good to know. How can we as a community help? As you can see many of us have done things to lose weight.
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@Aaron-Studer said:
This topic is so far off topic...
With that being said, my insurance will not cover the operation, so I am going to do everything that my insurance will cover, meeting with a nutritionist, a sleep study, etc.
Going to try to lose the weight on my own, and get as much guidance as I can along the way.
Doing a sleep study and getting a CPAP was one of the best things that I ever did. Didn't really cause me to lose weight, but it was great for my healthy overall.
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@Aaron-Studer said:
This topic is so far off topic...
With that being said, my insurance will not cover the operation, so I am going to do everything that my insurance will cover, meeting with a nutritionist, a sleep study, etc.
Going to try to lose the weight on my own, and get as much guidance as I can along the way.
Sorry.
I didn't have surgery to lose weight but before all this I was just trying to eat better and doing a LOT of exercising, Almost like it was a drug I wanted to do it so much. -
@scottalanmiller there was a good This American Life episode on the effects of just giving poor people money, and how it is useful in spite of the traditional wisdom. I'm in favor of a basic income for all people now that we're in a post scarcity situation: www.reddit.com/r/basicincome
People will soon be 95% obsolete when it comes to work, so we have to make sure everyone has enough to live on.
