Random Thread - Anything Goes
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@coliver said:
#19, no one is ever required to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Lots of people are required to say it. Legally most public school kids are protected from it, but only public school kids. Sadly the laws often don't have protection for private school kids.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
#19, no one is ever required to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Lots of people are required to say it. Legally most public school kids are protected from it, but only public school kids. Sadly the laws often don't have protection for private school kids.
That's interesting. I could have sworn it was a universal right to not say it, outside of the military and government.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
#19, no one is ever required to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Lots of people are required to say it. Legally most public school kids are protected from it, but only public school kids. Sadly the laws often don't have protection for private school kids.
That's interesting. I could have sworn it was a universal right to not say it, outside of the military and government.
The law protects kids from the government forcing them to do it, more or less. But there isn't a specific "protect kids from the pledge" law, which would actually be a little weird. But there needs to be one much like in Germany. They recognized some of these things as being dangerous on a case by case bases (like having a Nazi political party) and simply made them illegal.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
#19, no one is ever required to say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Lots of people are required to say it. Legally most public school kids are protected from it, but only public school kids. Sadly the laws often don't have protection for private school kids.
That's interesting. I could have sworn it was a universal right to not say it, outside of the military and government.
The law protects kids from the government forcing them to do it, more or less. But there isn't a specific "protect kids from the pledge" law, which would actually be a little weird. But there needs to be one much like in Germany. They recognized some of these things as being dangerous on a case by case bases (like having a Nazi political party) and simply made them illegal.
I realized it wasn't a law, I thought it was a court decision though. Either way it is a step in the right direction (in my opinion)... needs to keep going forward.
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@scottalanmiller said:
#4 - Tipping is hard anywhere you are not used to equally. Americans feel exactly the same why in Europe as Europeans feel in America.
I'm not sure I agree with this. It's pretty easy for an American to stop tipping once they realize it's not required or even normal.
But Europeans would have to stay mindful to a process they rarely do to follow the customs when they are in the US.
That said, on one hand I really like the simplicity that is the European system - the price you see on the menu is the price, you are expected to pay zero more (in either taxes or tip). But at the same time, I see the though process behind "if they give me good service, I'll give them a good tip" The screwball here is that since waitressing has the substandard minimum wage, tips are even expected by the government to bring the wage at least to typical minimum wage levels.
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Considering the new issues being brought forth by the use of Chip based CCs, I think moving to a standard pay for wait staff and reducing tipping to $0-2 like in Europe would be good.
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@Dashrender said:
I'm not sure I agree with this. It's pretty easy for an American to stop tipping once they realize it's not required or even normal.
Sure, it's easy to stop. But everywhere tips. So where do you stop tipping? Europe tips. Central America tips. Everyone tips that I know of. The fact that there is somewhere that doesn't tip at all, but no one is sure wheer that is, makes it that much harder, not easier.
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@Dashrender said:
Considering the new issues being brought forth by the use of Chip based CCs, I think moving to a standard pay for wait staff and reducing tipping to $0-2 like in Europe would be good.
$0-$2 is not standard in any part of Europe that I know.
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Nicaragua has the easiest tip system that I know, every restaurant puts the expected tip right onto the bill so that there isn't a question of what the tip should be. It is 10% here which is easy to see on the bill and super easy to calculate.
Europe has the hardest tip system that I know of anywhere in the world. No one can agree on what it is but it is something like 10%, but only sort of, and is different everywhere.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Considering the new issues being brought forth by the use of Chip based CCs, I think moving to a standard pay for wait staff and reducing tipping to $0-2 like in Europe would be good.
$0-$2 is not standard in any part of Europe that I know.
It's not? hmm.. That's what we were told by the locals. Both in the UK and Germany.
I know we have some UK folks, I'd love to hear them chime in.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Considering the new issues being brought forth by the use of Chip based CCs, I think moving to a standard pay for wait staff and reducing tipping to $0-2 like in Europe would be good.
$0-$2 is not standard in any part of Europe that I know.
It's not? hmm.. That's what we were told by the locals. Both in the UK and Germany.
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it. -
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@scottalanmiller said:
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it.When did that standard change?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it.When did that standard change?
Long, long ago. Not sure if it was before I was born but definitely before I was the one doing the tipping.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it.When did that standard change?
Long, long ago. Not sure if it was before I was born but definitely before I was the one doing the tipping.
If it has been that long - let's assume at least 30 years, I'm surprised that saying 18% isn't the 'standard'
That said, I've seen receipts print out suggested amounts for 15%, 18% 20% and others that show 18%, 20%, 22%
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Considering the new issues being brought forth by the use of Chip based CCs, I think moving to a standard pay for wait staff and reducing tipping to $0-2 like in Europe would be good.
$0-$2 is not standard in any part of Europe that I know.
It's not? hmm.. That's what we were told by the locals. Both in the UK and Germany.
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it.So basically.. I don't tip enough.
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Generally 15% is the standard for a "forced" tip where it isn't a tip but is a charge for service and has no reflection on the quality of service (parties of six or more are changed 15% at many restaurants commonly.) But when it is a true tip, the number really starts around 18%.
I know lots of people who have other rules too. Like my minimum tip for full service in the US is $4, regardless of the percentage, because the wait staff has to live on that and I'm taking up the earning potential of a customer, even if my meal is only $8. The less my meal costs me, the more the tip matters to the person getting it.
Most people I know just see 20% as the tipping amount but round up or down to make it an easy number.
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@Dashrender said:
That said, I've seen receipts print out suggested amounts for 15%, 18% 20% and others that show 18%, 20%, 22%
Inflation?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it.When did that standard change?
Long, long ago. Not sure if it was before I was born but definitely before I was the one doing the tipping.
If it has been that long - let's assume at least 30 years, I'm surprised that saying 18% isn't the 'standard'
That said, I've seen receipts print out suggested amounts for 15%, 18% 20% and others that show 18%, 20%, 22%
I've seen 15%, 20% and 25% too. Recently I think. But I can't verify that it was in the US.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Considering the new issues being brought forth by the use of Chip based CCs, I think moving to a standard pay for wait staff and reducing tipping to $0-2 like in Europe would be good.
$0-$2 is not standard in any part of Europe that I know.
It's not? hmm.. That's what we were told by the locals. Both in the UK and Germany.
Kind of like how all Americans say 15% but the real standard is 18%-20%?
In the US, people would always tell you the wrong thing too because we are conditioned to say it.So basically.. I don't tip enough.
I lean towards 25%, but I'm a big tipper. It's a hard life waiting tables. So I tend to do a very rough 25% for normal restaurants.
At places where I'm a regular, I tip more. And places where the wait staff does more than just wait tables even more. Like at my bar in Texas the tips are more like 50%.
