RemoteApp and Bandwidth Usage
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@coliver said:
I think it would depend on how much data the users actually use per connection to Epicor. I know RemoteApp basically uses almost no bandwidth to begin with (64kbps comes to mind but don't quote me on that). Do you have a router/firewall over at this remote site where you can monitor traffic and see how much RemoteApp is actually using?
I can monitor to some extent with the ASA 5505 at the remote site and look for calls to the ip of the RDS box. As far as bandwidth monitoring, the ASA does not really give you much to see. I guess I could use a free monitoring tool from Solarwinds, but it's really only for a switch port's bandwidth monitoring.
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@NetworkNerd said:
@coliver said:
I think it would depend on how much data the users actually use per connection to Epicor. I know RemoteApp basically uses almost no bandwidth to begin with (64kbps comes to mind but don't quote me on that). Do you have a router/firewall over at this remote site where you can monitor traffic and see how much RemoteApp is actually using?
I can monitor to some extent with the ASA 5505 at the remote site and look for calls to the ip of the RDS box. As far as bandwidth monitoring, the ASA does not really give you much to see. I guess I could use a free monitoring tool from Solarwinds, but it's really only for a switch port's bandwidth monitoring.
I was just looking for numbers on my firewall at our remote site to see what the 2X Application is using for bandwidth and couldn't find anything specific.
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I have a suspicion that this may have more to do with latency between sites than anything. When nothing is happening, the latency between a client pc at the remote site and the RDS server is 8-10 ms. And as you can imagine, Epicor runs like a champ via RemoteApp. At times you will see latency go up over 100 or 200 ms. There's not a consistent pattern to it, really. You can tell when the latency spikes because the Epicor performance stutters (screen refresh stutters).
I think we have some network issues to sort out over there. The users at this remote site have no web filter and are pulling files, a company intranet site, Epicor, e-mail, and most everything else from the main site. There is one Engineering server over at this site that synchronizes with a server at the main site occasionally, but I was thinking we had verified that this is only happening in the evenings.
I think I'll end up being forced to install the app for people at the remote site. We just migrated to a new version of Epicor over the holiday and are trying to work out the kinks. But during these latency spikes, instead of people having screen update stuttering, they are just going to have application errors or a nonresponsive application. So how can they really say it is faster when running on a local pc?
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@NetworkNerd said:
I have a suspicion that this may have more to do with latency between sites than anything. When nothing is happening, the latency between a client pc at the remote site and the RDS server is 8-10 ms. And as you can imagine, Epicor runs like a champ via RemoteApp. At times you will see latency go up over 100 or 200 ms. There's not a consistent pattern to it, really. You can tell when the latency spikes because the Epicor performance stutters (screen refresh stutters).
I think we have some network issues to sort out over there. The users at this remote site have no web filter and are pulling files, a company intranet site, Epicor, e-mail, and most everything else from the main site. There is one Engineering server over at this site that synchronizes with a server at the main site occasionally, but I was thinking we had verified that this is only happening in the evenings.
I think I'll end up being forced to install the app for people at the remote site. We just migrated to a new version of Epicor over the holiday and are trying to work out the kinks. But during these latency spikes, instead of people having screen update stuttering, they are just going to have application errors or a nonresponsive application. So how can they really say it is faster when running on a local pc?
There are a lot of things it could be. In NY, it was not uncommon (ask @Minion-Queen if you don't believe me) for someone to have great internet speed, but not when it rained, or something like that. If the weather is bad, or there is another person on the main pipe eating up all the bandwidth, etc. There are any number of things it could be.
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Yes every time we get bad weather our internet connection stinks (like today for example). Also our Cell service goes down hill as well. I hate winter weather, thanks for reminding me to complain about it @thanksaj
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At this site in connection we know the connection to the internet is solid. That's the one aspect that has never been an issue.
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@Minion-Queen said:
Yes every time we get bad weather our internet connection stinks (like today for example). Also our Cell service goes down hill as well. I hate winter weather, thanks for reminding me to complain about it @thanksaj
You're welcome.
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@NetworkNerd said:
At this site in connection we know the connection to the internet is solid. That's the one aspect that has never been an issue.
Then is a faster connection possible?
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@NetworkNerd said:
I think we have some network issues to sort out over there. The users at this remote site have no web filter and are pulling files, a company intranet site, Epicor, e-mail, and most everything else from the main site. There is one Engineering server over at this site that synchronizes with a server at the main site occasionally, but I was thinking we had verified that this is only happening in the evenings.
This seems like quite a bit of traffic going over a T1, how many users do you have over there? Do some of them stream music/video? Do you use a client based email system where some users will be downloading the same attachment multiple times (more then one user downloading the same attachment?)
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@coliver said:
@NetworkNerd said:
I think we have some network issues to sort out over there. The users at this remote site have no web filter and are pulling files, a company intranet site, Epicor, e-mail, and most everything else from the main site. There is one Engineering server over at this site that synchronizes with a server at the main site occasionally, but I was thinking we had verified that this is only happening in the evenings.
This seems like quite a bit of traffic going over a T1, how many users do you have over there? Do some of them stream music/video? Do you use a client based email system where some users will be downloading the same attachment multiple times (more then one user downloading the same attachment?)
We have about 10 users total. I'm not 100% certain about the streaming aspect, but I would think if anyone knew they were streaming they would quickly be lynched as the people over there know they have limited bandwidth.
We use Exchange 2010 hosted at our main site (clients using cached Exchange mode). But users at this site normally tell us things pick up when Engineers are not over there working.
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@NetworkNerd said:
@coliver said:
@NetworkNerd said:
I think we have some network issues to sort out over there. The users at this remote site have no web filter and are pulling files, a company intranet site, Epicor, e-mail, and most everything else from the main site. There is one Engineering server over at this site that synchronizes with a server at the main site occasionally, but I was thinking we had verified that this is only happening in the evenings.
This seems like quite a bit of traffic going over a T1, how many users do you have over there? Do some of them stream music/video? Do you use a client based email system where some users will be downloading the same attachment multiple times (more then one user downloading the same attachment?)
We have about 10 users total. I'm not 100% certain about the streaming aspect, but I would think if anyone knew they were streaming they would quickly be lynched as the people over there know they have limited bandwidth.
We use Exchange 2010 hosted at our main site (clients using cached Exchange mode). But users at this site normally tell us things pick up when Engineers are not over there working.
So it works fine 80% of the time but then the latency spikes for 20% of the time? Guessing on the actual numbers but it does sound like link saturation. Not sure how else you could test it though.
I find it hard to believe that an application linked to a live database is more forgiving with latency then a RemoteApp.
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@NetworkNerd said:
@coliver said:
@NetworkNerd said:
I think we have some network issues to sort out over there. The users at this remote site have no web filter and are pulling files, a company intranet site, Epicor, e-mail, and most everything else from the main site. There is one Engineering server over at this site that synchronizes with a server at the main site occasionally, but I was thinking we had verified that this is only happening in the evenings.
This seems like quite a bit of traffic going over a T1, how many users do you have over there? Do some of them stream music/video? Do you use a client based email system where some users will be downloading the same attachment multiple times (more then one user downloading the same attachment?)
We have about 10 users total. I'm not 100% certain about the streaming aspect, but I would think if anyone knew they were streaming they would quickly be lynched as the people over there know they have limited bandwidth.
We use Exchange 2010 hosted at our main site (clients using cached Exchange mode). But users at this site normally tell us things pick up when Engineers are not over there working.
Yeup, someone is slurping bandwidth.
Can you get a second pipe into the place, cheap DSL or Cable? I have a Peplink 300 I can loan out to you, can handle 15Mbps total worth of traffic, more than enough for a single T1 and a 6Mpbs pipe. Don't even have to do anything on the T1/VPN side of things, just put it into drop in mode and set up some rules to shuffle HTTP/HTTPS traffic over the cheap pipe.
That way you can bug management to get a bigger pipe into the place. Or a bigger Peplink.
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Here's a shot of what is happening. The 8-9 ms is what we get when everyone is away from their computer (pretty consistently). But even during periods of heavy use, there's never a latency spike like this at our other sites. But none of them are running over a T1, either.
Regarding the additional connection, I remember looking into that not long ago, but the issue is we are on the hook for 3 years for the T1. I think we are about 1.5 years into it now.
The investigation continues.
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@NetworkNerd said:
Regarding the additional connection, I remember looking into that not long ago, but the issue is we are on the hook for 3 years for the T1. I think we are about 1.5 years into it now.
It may be worth eating the cost and getting another connection in there. Even bonding it and just allowing the RemoteApp traffic to go through the new connection. Something to consider especially if productivity is being impacted as much as you described.
You may have to prove that it is a saturated line though.
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@coliver said:
@NetworkNerd said:
Regarding the additional connection, I remember looking into that not long ago, but the issue is we are on the hook for 3 years for the T1. I think we are about 1.5 years into it now.
It may be worth eating the cost and getting another connection in there. Even bonding it and just allowing the RemoteApp traffic to go through the new connection. Something to consider especially if productivity is being impacted as much as you described.
You may have to prove that it is a saturated line though.
Agreed.
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It's not a straight "either uses this much." It is a factor of "how it is used" and what data goes across the line. A heavily graphical application will have a lot of RDP bandwidth. And poorly written queries will have poor SQL bandwidth. You'd have to test real world usage to know the numbers.
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@scottalanmiller said:
It's not a straight "either uses this much." It is a factor of "how it is used" and what data goes across the line. A heavily graphical application will have a lot of RDP bandwidth. And poorly written queries will have poor SQL bandwidth. You'd have to test real world usage to know the numbers.
Are there any great free tools out there that will give you bandwidth usage by application on your LAN?
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@NetworkNerd said:
Are there any great free tools out there that will give you bandwidth usage by application on your LAN?
Your switch should tell you a lot of that info. Mostly just the point to point numbers is all that you need.
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Human feel is a big deal too. RDP might use more or less bandwidth but the responsiveness of the app might not be easily portrayed by that number.
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@scottalanmiller said:
It's not a straight "either uses this much." It is a factor of "how it is used" and what data goes across the line. A heavily graphical application will have a lot of RDP bandwidth. And poorly written queries will have poor SQL bandwidth. You'd have to test real world usage to know the numbers.
I thought all RDP bandwith was minute. This surely explains a lot.
