Is it racist? I think it is.
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@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
Jews could be anti-ArabThat would be language / cultural discrimination or prejudice.
You are mistaking ancestry, ethnicity, culture, religion, nationality, and linguistic group with race.
Race is a categorization based on shared physical traits. (black, white, asian, indigenous)
Exactly. Jew and Arab differ only on DNA, not on anything else. I think you are thinking of Judaism and Islam. Those are not traits of the DNA.
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@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
You are mistaking ancestry, ethnicity, culture, religion, nationality, and linguistic group with race.
Which of those you use to identify with is your choice. But are all different things.
Yes, but I'm only using DNA.
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@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
You are mistaking ancestry, ethnicity, culture, religion, nationality, and linguistic group with race.
Which of those you use to identify with is your choice. But are all different things.
So what race is someone who is mixed?
They get to choose... How does that even work?
Example?
Someone who is white and black. They almost always choose black. Why? How do they even have a choice?
They don't, when you "choose" you are choosing your ethnicity.
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@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
You are mistaking ancestry, ethnicity, culture, religion, nationality, and linguistic group with race.
Which of those you use to identify with is your choice. But are all different things.
So what race is someone who is mixed?
They get to choose... How does that even work?
Example?
Someone who is white and black. They almost always choose black. Why? How do they even have a choice?
I don't know how to explain it well without sounding racist myself, but they are all just objective truths, so take it how you want. It's more-so about the physical appearance than anything.
For example, if someone is White and Asian, then of course they will likely have the physical appearances of both White and Asian. They might say White, they might say Asian. They might say they are White & Asian. Depending on the country this person is in or from, they may say they are Asian-American.
Same with your example regarding White and Black.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
You are mistaking ancestry, ethnicity, culture, religion, nationality, and linguistic group with race.
Which of those you use to identify with is your choice. But are all different things.
Yes, but I'm only using DNA.
Ancestry is what DNA most closely matches.
Race is more rooted in societal perceptions and classifications rather than strict genetic distinctions.
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There is one example.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
The world has always seen Europe alone as having about seven major races... Celtic, German, Slavic, Hellenic, Latin, Iberian, and Magyar plus the tiny race that is in Finland, Estonia and the Basque country.
This is ridiculous
I am from Europe and I do not know or heard anyone talking that these are "seven major races".
Whole Europe is (natively) of White/Caucasian race and I never heard anyone calling Slavic od Hellenic, for example, as a race.
Celtic, Slavic German... are groups of languages, not race or DNA. -
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
There is one example.
It is geo blocked in my country.
But I do not find it racist
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
There is one example.
It is geo blocked in my country.
But I do not find it racistShould we call it unnecessarily discriminatory (Instead of racist?)
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@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
There is one example.
It is geo blocked in my country.
But I do not find it racistShould we call it unnecessarily discriminatory (Instead of racist?)
Let me put it this way.
If you would have said something more like:
"The website I'm trying to go to is only geo-blocking every spanish-speaking country. Is it just me or do they have a prejudice against spanish-speaking people?"
Or,
"This website is blocking every country in the world except the U.S., and their phone support also said it's due to the owners of the service having a huge prejudice against all non-U.S. countries."
That'd make WAY more sense, and something I could even get on board with, providing there aren't any technical reasons that make much more sense such as those I listed initially.
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@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
There is one example.
It is geo blocked in my country.
But I do not find it racistShould we call it unnecessarily discriminatory (Instead of racist?)
Yes, OK. Because otherwise, I think we are misusing term "racism" and that is not good (true meening of the word would be lost slowly)
On the other hand, I do not find it "discriminatory" either.
I think people are free to geoblock their sites if they think it is usefull for them and if they do not break any law etc.
I do not think we are "entitled" to access all sites by default - if someone do not want it's site to be accessible from Europe, I'm find with it.But we do not now what site was in question here in the first place (so I cannot claim that there is nothing discriminatory with site in question)
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@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
There is one example.
It is geo blocked in my country.
But I do not find it racistShould we call it unnecessarily discriminatory (Instead of racist?)
No, I don't think so. Because fundamentally it is about race or the perception of race without any real alternative. When you see Americans as a race, as many Americans do, limiting anyone "except Americans" cannot be anything but racism. And no amount of "I don't see it that way" personally, changes the reality that that's how many Americans see being American (and mirrors how other countries are.) I don't think we should ever bow to the millenial "don't make people upset" mentality. Yes, I know it feels bad to admit that we are often surrounded by bad people, but we can't worry about acts of evil being ignored just because some scared American racist will be butt hurt over being called out. There's way too much "we can't make them feel bad" about this stuff in America. Man up America, put your big girl panties on and accept when you do bad things. Call it out. make it stop.
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@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
Or,
"This website is blocking every country in the world except the U.S., and their phone support also said it's due to the owners of the service having a huge prejudice against all non-U.S. countries."
So you are okay with saying it is racism, as long as we couch the verbage so to make it feel more palatable to sensitive people who are racist, and we say that they are racist, but we avoid the word to not hurt their feelings?
When do we care about hurting the feelings of people being racist? That seems crazy.
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@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
That'd make WAY more sense, and something I could even get on board with, providing there aren't any technical reasons that make much more sense such as those I listed initially.
There's never a technical reason. We've been discussing this for years. It's common IT knowledge that there is no technical reason to geo-IP block as it doesn't do what the name implies.
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
On the other hand, I do not find it "discriminatory" either.
It's literally a mechanism to discriminate by the perceived ownership of an IP address by a group of people. It's as discriminatory as it gets.
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
I think people are free to geoblock their sites if they think it is usefull for them and if they do not break any law etc.
Yes, in SOME cases, people are free to discriminate, that's correct (in the US where racism is heavily supported by the government.) It's not ethical, but it's legal IF you aren't a publicly traded company or in any way a function of the government and need to be available to the public. Which isn't much in a country where nearly every industry is eventually backed by the government (the US is heavily leaning towards government ownership and planned economy compared to more capitalistic countries.)
But that's not in question. Are people LEGALLY allowed to be racist? Yes. That's not the question.
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
I do not think we are "entitled" to access all sites by default - if someone do not want it's site to be accessible from Europe, I'm find with it.
In the same vein, I don't think any human should be "entitled" to use someones race or proxy for race, like nationality, as a determining factor for anything. The idea that people who live in, or are willing to travel to, certain regions should be excluded goes down the path of... you can do anything you want. Where does that stop? Why is it okay to discriminate against someone for being "from" or "in" a place, but not being "of" a place? WHat's the difference? Hard lines is all.
This is the very argument used by extreme racists to justify racists actions. It's a standard pattern. I know why it feels okay. But I think when you really look and say "oh wait, there is no honest, ethical reason to ever do this" it starts to make sense. In the INternet, where your IP is means nothing. Imagine if this was an in person shop and that you have a European passport means you are turned away and not allowed to shop. Or more specifically a Croatian one. Oh, you are a Croat? You can't shop here. You say "But I'm not a Croat, I just moved there and live there". Oh, well, too bad, we don't serve people who associate with Croats either.
Does that not feel racist? Is it legal? Yes, in the US. Is it okay? Never. Why do we excuse it on the Internet when it would disgust us in person?
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
On the other hand, I do not find it "discriminatory" either.
It's literally a mechanism to discriminate by the perceived ownership of an IP address by a group of people. It's as discriminatory as it gets.
No it is not.
It's literally a mechanism to block access from certain IP adresses.Is it discriminatory or not? It depend on the motives of those who set up geoblocking on that site.
Without knowing the motives, you cannot prove is it discriminatory or not.
I do not find it discriminatory - You are free to feel it is discriminatory.
Neither of us have a proof. -
@scottalanmiller said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
Or,
"This website is blocking every country in the world except the U.S., and their phone support also said it's due to the owners of the service having a huge prejudice against all non-U.S. countries."
So you are okay with saying it is racism, as long as we couch the verbage so to make it feel more palatable to sensitive people who are racist, and we say that they are racist, but we avoid the word to not hurt their feelings?
When do we care about hurting the feelings of people being racist? That seems crazy.
No, because not all prejudice is racism. And what you've been explaining in your experience isn't racism.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it racist? I think it is.:
Or more specifically a Croatian one. Oh, you are a Croat? You can't shop here. You say "But I'm not a Croat, I just moved there and live there". Oh, well, too bad, we don't serve people who associate with Croats either.
Does that not feel racist?
No. Croatian is not a race. "Croatian" refers to the people of Croatia or their descendants, and it primarily denotes a nationality or an ethnic identity. Race is a broader concept that typically refers to groups of people with common physical attributes and genetic traits, although the definition and significance of race vary across cultures and is widely debated. Croatians, like other nationalities, can be of various races. It's important to differentiate between ethnicity, nationality, and race.
