Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@siringo said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I upgraded my PC on the weekend, it runs so much better now
This is the exact verbiage I'm discussing though. You're using the marketing term "PC" as a definition for a product. Likely a tower design computer that is running windows.
If you said "I upgraded my computer this weekend, it runs so much better now" it leaves room for questions rather than creating ambiguity. A person could follow up with "Oh, what did you upgrade too, new ram, new CPU, new GPU, updated the OS?"
If you were to say the same upgrade line about a iPad people would assume you updated iOS. But that is a miscommunication on the recipient side of the conversation. Because upgrading != updating.
An iPad has no components to upgrade to be faster, you're stuck on the hardware you have.
If someone told me they upgraded their ipad - I would assume thought bought a new one.. though calling that an upgrade is just weird.. but people say and do weird things all time.
I would never consider someone upgrading their ipad to mean updating the software on it. Of course I say that and upgrading Windows would mean moving from one version to another.. something that for the lay person no longer exists in the windows 10 arena... of course us in IT understand the new major CU's are upgrades, lay persons definitely don't.. they see them only as updates to something they already have, where if the version were changing to Windows 11 or 12, etc.. then they would understand it's a new version... a la upgrade. -
@Dashrender said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I would never consider someone upgrading their ipad to mean updating the software on it.
But that's the defining piece of information. You know that you can't upgrade the CPU in an iPad. But so many people use the words interchangeably that these basic definitions get messed up when trying to have a conversation.
"You upgraded to the 22" rims, damn!"
"You updated the color of the LEDs on your car, cool"You would never say "I upgrade the color of my cars LEDs" if you were just changing the color.
I know these are drastic examples, but that's what it takes to explain this.
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I have met dozens of companies in my country (few, banks, few ISPs), and I do not know of single one that uses Linux for their desktops or laptops.
Besides me and my family, I can't think of anyone that uses Linux on their desktops or laptops.
Even I still use Windows most of time (becuase of Excel and few other great apps I miss on Linux)Server installations are different story, of course
(sorry for late reply)
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I have met dozens of companies in my country (few, banks, few ISPs), and I do not know of single one that uses Linux for their desktops or laptops.
That's what's being discussed, who is using a Linux Desktop - few as we've discussed repeatedly.
Besides me and my family, I can't think of anyone that uses Linux on their desktops or laptops.
Even I still use Windows most of time (becuase of Excel and few other great apps I miss on Linux)I don't know that I would call Excel a great app. IMO it's mediocre at, while I agree it has some features other spreadsheet solutions are adding these too.
Server installations are different story, of course
Yeah, even Microsoft says that Linux servers are deployed more than any other OS in Azure. I'm certain AWS, Alibaba etc are all the same.
(sorry for late reply)
No worries.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Mario-Jakovina said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I have met dozens of companies in my country (few, banks, few ISPs), and I do not know of single one that uses Linux for their desktops or laptops.
That's what's being discussed, who is using a Linux Desktop - few as we've discussed repeatedly.
Besides me and my family, I can't think of anyone that uses Linux on their desktops or laptops.
Even I still use Windows most of time (becuase of Excel and few other great apps I miss on Linux)I don't know that I would call Excel a great app. IMO it's mediocre at, while I agree it has some features other spreadsheet solutions are adding these too.
Server installations are different story, of course
Yeah, even Microsoft says that Linux servers are deployed more than any other OS in Azure. I'm certain AWS, Alibaba etc are all the same.
(sorry for late reply)
No worries.
Did you know that you could have kept this thread cleaner and more readable, increased your post count more, and made it easier to reply to if you would have split your post into like 10 separate posts?
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I don't know that I would call Excel a great app. IMO it's mediocre at, while I agree it has some features other spreadsheet solutions are adding these too.
I do not see any other spreadsheet that matches (or outperforms) Excel.
In our company we use Excel and LibreOffice Calc as spreadsheets, but Excel is better for us.
We also tried Onlyoffice, but we were not satisfied very soon. -
@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
Did you know that you could have kept this thread cleaner and more readable, increased your post count more, and made it easier to reply to if you would have split your post into like 10 separate posts?
Sure but that would be a dick move since I'm not trying to increase my post count. Each of the points I brought out are worthy of discussing on their own.
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I don't know that I would call Excel a great app. IMO it's mediocre at, while I agree it has some features other spreadsheet solutions are adding these too.
I do not see any other spreadsheet that matches (or outperforms) Excel.
In our company we use Excel and LibreOffice Calc as spreadsheets, but Excel is better for us.
We also tried Onlyoffice, but we were not satisfied very soon.Yeah, I agree that none of the other office suites look as nice or include the same features as Microsoft's offering. LibreOffice is getting close but it still has some lacking features.
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@Mario-Jakovina said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I don't know that I would call Excel a great app. IMO it's mediocre at, while I agree it has some features other spreadsheet solutions are adding these too.
I do not see any other spreadsheet that matches (or outperforms) Excel.
In our company we use Excel and LibreOffice Calc as spreadsheets, but Excel is better for us.
We also tried Onlyoffice, but we were not satisfied very soon.We use OpenOffice Calc and Excel, and Calc is superior in handling csv files for instance.
It's also a cross platform application, which Excel is not.
So there are a number of areas where Excel clearly can't match the performance. -
@Pete-S said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Mario-Jakovina said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
I don't know that I would call Excel a great app. IMO it's mediocre at, while I agree it has some features other spreadsheet solutions are adding these too.
I do not see any other spreadsheet that matches (or outperforms) Excel.
In our company we use Excel and LibreOffice Calc as spreadsheets, but Excel is better for us.
We also tried Onlyoffice, but we were not satisfied very soon.We use OpenOffice Calc and Excel, and Calc is superior in handling csv files for instance.
It's also a cross platform application, which Excel is not.
So there are a number of areas where Excel clearly can't match the performance.If I somehow need Excel specifically, on an unsupported platform, I use it in the web browser.
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@Obsolesce That's not the same solution at all, even if its mostly compatible.
For instance you can't open password protected documents in Web version.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce That's not the same solution at all, even if its mostly compatible.
For instance you can't open password protected documents in Web version.
I didn't know that, but I assume file based password protection is lagacy compared to RBAC file access you'd use in a cloud solution linked to Excel web version.
Then you have file / link sharing and all that, and a ton more available as well.
It just comes down to people doing it wrong in all aspects. So it's not really an issue or down side.
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@Obsolesce Yeah password protecting a document is very much a legacy process, but so many people and organizations don't migrate to cloud because of other features that don't work in the web version with their legacy password protected excel documents.
I know of at least 3 different organizations that can't effectively use the web version because of the amount of re-design they'd have to do with their Excel documents.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce Yeah password protecting a document is very much a legacy process, but so many people and organizations don't migrate to cloud because of other features that don't work in the web version with their legacy password protected excel documents.
I know of at least 3 different organizations that can't effectively use the web version because of the amount of re-design they'd have to do with their Excel documents.
Sounds like Excel was the wrong tool for the job.. but like so many - they likely started small, and just created more and more Excel sheets to do jobs instead of hiring a DB/app dev person to make them a better solution.... and now, at this point it would likely be several 1000's of dollars to do that or more.
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@Dashrender yeah a lot of them are.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce Yeah password protecting a document is very much a legacy process, but so many people and organizations don't migrate to cloud because of other features that don't work in the web version with their legacy password protected excel documents.
I know of at least 3 different organizations that can't effectively use the web version because of the amount of re-design they'd have to do with their Excel documents.
If they already have and use Excel, then what's the issue? Obviously it not being cross-platform isn't an issue there.
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@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
If they already have and use Excel, then what's the issue? Obviously it not being cross-platform isn't an issue there.
The issue comes from the desire to upgrade to newer versions. Microsoft, while they offer stand-alone installations of Office 2019, now require yearly upgrades if you need those new features.
Many organizations simply don't or won't pay for upgrades year after year for something that has traditionally been supported for several years at a time.
At the same time, they won't pay for O365 to just get access to Microsoft Office (ueo to the total monthly cost increase) from $0 to $12-22 per user.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
If they already have and use Excel, then what's the issue? Obviously it not being cross-platform isn't an issue there.
The issue comes from the desire to upgrade to newer versions. Microsoft, while they offer stand-alone installations of Office 2019, now require yearly upgrades if you need those new features.
Many organizations simply don't or won't pay for upgrades year after year for something that has traditionally been supported for several years at a time.
At the same time, they won't pay for O365 to just get access to Microsoft Office (ueo to the total monthly cost increase) from $0 to $12-22 per user.
Then they shouldn't have went down that path to begin with, never made the decision to go with software or platforms and services and business practices that require something that costs money.
Software company wanting to make money from subscription based services is nothing new. If they don't like it they can spend way more resources to move everything and everyone to something else.
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@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
If they already have and use Excel, then what's the issue? Obviously it not being cross-platform isn't an issue there.
The issue comes from the desire to upgrade to newer versions. Microsoft, while they offer stand-alone installations of Office 2019, now require yearly upgrades if you need those new features.
Many organizations simply don't or won't pay for upgrades year after year for something that has traditionally been supported for several years at a time.
At the same time, they won't pay for O365 to just get access to Microsoft Office (ueo to the total monthly cost increase) from $0 to $12-22 per user.
Then they shouldn't have went down that path to begin with, never made the decision to go with software or platforms and services and business practices that require something that costs money.
Software company wanting to make money from subscription based services is nothing new. If they don't like it they can spend way more resources to move everything and everyone to something else.
Edit: Quoted for posterity.
@Obsolesce you really need to reconsider before you start smashing your keyboard. These decisions aren't mine they are simply decisions that were made who knows how long ago that I have to deal with.
Your inability to understand that past decisions affects the future is very telling.
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@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@DustinB3403 said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
@Obsolesce said in Is Open Source Really So Much More Secure By Nature:
If they already have and use Excel, then what's the issue? Obviously it not being cross-platform isn't an issue there.
The issue comes from the desire to upgrade to newer versions. Microsoft, while they offer stand-alone installations of Office 2019, now require yearly upgrades if you need those new features.
Many organizations simply don't or won't pay for upgrades year after year for something that has traditionally been supported for several years at a time.
At the same time, they won't pay for O365 to just get access to Microsoft Office (ueo to the total monthly cost increase) from $0 to $12-22 per user.
Then they shouldn't have went down that path to begin with, never made the decision to go with software or platforms and services and business practices that require something that costs money.
Software company wanting to make money from subscription based services is nothing new. If they don't like it they can spend way more resources to move everything and everyone to something else.
Edit: Quoted for posterity.
@Obsolesce you really need to reconsider before you start smashing your keyboard. These decisions aren't mine they are simply decisions that were made who knows how long ago that I have to deal with.
Your inability to understand that past decisions affects the future is very telling.
I'm just saying it's not Microsoft's / MS Office's fault ya'll picked the wrong software for your business requirements.
