Topics of Systems Administration
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@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
To me it's hard to believe that the company would spend millions in legal feels to prevent you from working at a company that has nothing to do with them. What did they gain from that?
This is where you have to understand hedge funds. Mathematically it made perfect business sense. You are thinking of it from a "Scott's value" perspective, but that didn't matter to them at all. What mattered was that they'd become famous as a shitty place to work and couldn't hire new people, and everyone working there wanted to leave. If they let me leave (for a lot more money) they had two problems - one was that I'd been chosen for the outside role when several people higher than me in the company had been turned down which looked really bad for them internally; and second that it meant that their stories that they told that we were the highest paid place and that people couldn't get better work elsewhere would be broken. Keeping their staff afraid was worth billions and billions to them because if the IT team fled, they'd be out of business (finance runs on tech.) So MY value to them was meaningless and small, but the risk of me taking another job that paid better and treated me better was enormous - worth essentially any amount of money or risk to stop.
Likewise, someone that sat in the office directly next to me also took an outside job and the same thing happened to him about a month before. But he backed down and asked to stay so that he'd keep his paycheck. I, instead, fled to Europe and took a job that they couldn't touch (and then they settled the non-compete with a payout once they knew I would be able to fund the lawsuit.) But it was nothing to do with me, everyone was treated the same because threatening a few people scared everyone.
Is this bridgewater?
Maybe, definitely a CT based hedge fund (HF Row is in CT)
If it's them, anything I can find shows less than a billion in revenue?
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@Pete-S said in Topics of Systems Administration:
$400K per year doesn't sound impossible to me. It's roughly the same as outsourcing it at $200 per hour full time.
Right, it's rare, but very real. And obviously at $400K you essentially always expect that that person is way, way more than 40 hours a week, and like always on call. $200/hr adds up fast when you push people to 60-80 hours a week
$400K for being able to dictate location, hours, their whole life's focus, it's not that much for an extremely skilled person in any core field. It's a great salary, but within reason.
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@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
To me it's hard to believe that the company would spend millions in legal feels to prevent you from working at a company that has nothing to do with them. What did they gain from that?
This is where you have to understand hedge funds. Mathematically it made perfect business sense. You are thinking of it from a "Scott's value" perspective, but that didn't matter to them at all. What mattered was that they'd become famous as a shitty place to work and couldn't hire new people, and everyone working there wanted to leave. If they let me leave (for a lot more money) they had two problems - one was that I'd been chosen for the outside role when several people higher than me in the company had been turned down which looked really bad for them internally; and second that it meant that their stories that they told that we were the highest paid place and that people couldn't get better work elsewhere would be broken. Keeping their staff afraid was worth billions and billions to them because if the IT team fled, they'd be out of business (finance runs on tech.) So MY value to them was meaningless and small, but the risk of me taking another job that paid better and treated me better was enormous - worth essentially any amount of money or risk to stop.
Likewise, someone that sat in the office directly next to me also took an outside job and the same thing happened to him about a month before. But he backed down and asked to stay so that he'd keep his paycheck. I, instead, fled to Europe and took a job that they couldn't touch (and then they settled the non-compete with a payout once they knew I would be able to fund the lawsuit.) But it was nothing to do with me, everyone was treated the same because threatening a few people scared everyone.
Is this bridgewater?
Maybe, definitely a CT based hedge fund (HF Row is in CT)
If it's them, anything I can find shows less than a billion in revenue?
Not sure what you mean, everyone on HF Row is worth many billions.
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@Pete-S said in Topics of Systems Administration:
$400K per year doesn't sound impossible to me. It's roughly the same as outsourcing it at $200 per hour full time.
Similarly, I know MSP Techs who own their own businesses who make crazy salaries. Don't know anyone making $400K that way (not as a working tech at least, I've heard of owners of big firms making a lot, but that's completely different) but I know MSP Techs getting close to $300K (because they are the owner and do all the pieces themselves and so keep all the overhead themselves.) They work 80 hours a week to do it, billing as close to 40 as they can, and doing all their marketing, billing, accounting, etc. with the other 40 hours. You get some really skilled people (generalists, mostly) doing this and burning the candle at both ends to make crazy salaries too. If you wanted to have someone like that switch to being an employee and not getting the freedom to set their own hours and the freedom of owning the company, you'd have to boost their pay enough for them to like the deal.
Im' not suggesting anyone push themselves that hard, but if you are the kind that does, there are multiple paths to that kind of salary and jobs that leverage that have to compete with money and benefits against alternative options.
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@Pete-S said in Topics of Systems Administration:
$400K per year doesn't sound impossible to me. It's roughly the same as outsourcing it at $200 per hour full time.
I don't think anyone is saying it's not. I'm saying the only people I've seen making that ($500k+) are like L5/L6 at larger tech companies. Even companies like Snap (Snapchat) pay over that, but they're all developers and architects. Not straight SAs.
Highest I've interviewed for was around 260 at GitHub, but again it was a developer role and not anywhere near L5/6.
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@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
and there are times where you are working 3 full time jobs for 3 different companies.
Another example you should bring up that seems impossible, lol, is in 2004 - 2005. During this time I was working three full time jobs. Who, how and why?
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I worked for MS / Dell / Veritas (this is one job, the three hired me jointly for a project that they were doing together) at a major grocery store chain. It was a huge engineering project and I was actually brought in on three projects with the same group, one engagement right after another. This kept me pretty busy, but was entirely a night time project (outside of a few meetings and planning sessions.) I worked overnights because that's when the company was slowest and least impacted by my work. So this was the big job paying the bills, but was completely at night (and a lot of travel.)
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I worked for a K12 school running their IT and teaching some classes. This, hopefully obviously, was during the day not at night. This was a volunteer arrangement, I was not paid. I talk about this a lot in how volunteer jobs can do wonders for your career (it was this position, not the big MS / Dell engineering gig that Wall St. used to pick me for my next role in 2006.) This was full time during school hours and I'd work here straight from returning from the nighttime job. My wife taught at the school so we got to spend the day together this way as well (she taught 8th grade.)
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I worked at NTG. Because I was a volunteer at the K12 school during this era, I was able to have an office there and there was no demands that I be 100% focused on the school (especially as I wasn't needed every moment), so I continued my consulting work with NTG. Technically the K12 was through NTG, and NTG donated the equipment that they used (as did Time Warner / Spectrum now, for the Internet.)
I'd sleep in the afternoons. I was in my 20s and it did wonders for advancing quickly and we didn't have kids. It was the right time to do crazy work like this.
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@stacksofplates said in Topics of Systems Administration:
I'm saying the only people I've seen making that ($500k+) are like L5/L6 at larger tech companies.
I've never seen an SA hit the $500K mark. Not without stepping into management. Close, but not quite to that point. I expect that some do, but that's beyond what I've seen.
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@scottalanmiller just post your resume.
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FORK THIS THREAD!
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@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
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This thread went to hell in handbasket.
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@VoIP_n00b said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller just post your resume.
And SSN, Birthdate and mothers maiden name.
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@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
You do know how slow the courts are to react to anything, right? Also most people could never hope to pay a lawyer that could take on a company of that size no matter how wrong the company is.
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@travisdh1 said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
You do know how slow the courts are to react to anything, right? Also most people could never hope to pay a lawyer that could take on a company of that size no matter how wrong the company is.
You would have free attorneys lining up by thousands to take this case. Because it's that ludicrous.
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@travisdh1 said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
You do know how slow the courts are to react to anything, right? Also most people could never hope to pay a lawyer that could take on a company of that size no matter how wrong the company is.
If the case was a sure win, you'd have lawyers lining up ready to work on contingency.
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Yep assuming this was in NY (Wall St). It wouldn't even go to court.
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/non-competes.pdf
From NY gov :
Are non-competes legal?
A non-compete is only allowed and enforceable to the extent it (1) is necessary to protect the
employer’s legitimate interests, (2) does not impose an undue hardship on the employee, (3) does
not harm the public, and (4) is reasonable in time period and geographic scope. An employer’s
legitimate interest may include protecting an employer’s trade secrets and confidential
information and preventing employees from taking specialized skills they gained on the job to a
competitor. A non-compete’s restrictions must be no greater than necessary to protect the
legitimate interests of the employer.
To determine if a non-compete is enforceable, courts consider an employee’s job duties, the
employer’s business interest, and the language of the agreement. A court will not enforce a non-
compete unless it determines the non-compete meets the criteria in the above paragraph.
A court may require an employee to comply with some parts of a non-compete agreement, even
if other portions of the agreement are unreasonable, such as length of time or geographic scope.
Generally, upon finding portions of a non-compete unreasonable, a court may invalidate the
agreement entirely or may enforce the agreement for a shorter time or in a smaller area. -
@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
Are non-competes legal?
A non-compete is only allowed and enforceable to the extent it (1) is necessary to protect the
employer’s legitimate interests, (2) does not impose an undue hardship on the employee, (3) does
not harm the public, and (4) is reasonable in time period and geographic scope.Well it fails (1), (2), and (4)
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@marcinozga said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@travisdh1 said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
You do know how slow the courts are to react to anything, right? Also most people could never hope to pay a lawyer that could take on a company of that size no matter how wrong the company is.
If the case was a sure win, you'd have lawyers lining up ready to work on contingency.
yep
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@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
Sadly, not how it works. People lose these all the time because when you have pockets that deep, that make it drawn out. It's nice to say that it'll just get thrown out, but it doesn't.
They DID go after me in another industry. They went after the company, too. In another state.
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@travisdh1 said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@IRJ said in Topics of Systems Administration:
@scottalanmiller said in Topics of Systems Administration:
As my employer said at the time "You can't bag groceries in Oregon", that was their policy. No job, of any sort, anywhere in the country. Their policy was that they were a "US business" and "all US business" was a competitor. Clearly that doesn't work in court, but the number of people who had won against them were.... very few. Famously, two just did a few months ago. But it's taken that long.
Wow that is totally illegal and would never even stand up in court. Hell you could probably represent yourself in such a scenario and still win.
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I can almost guarantee they would not go after you if you went to another industry
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No way that is holding up in court. No way that takes 10 years to win. Maybe 10 weeks?
You do know how slow the courts are to react to anything, right? Also most people could never hope to pay a lawyer that could take on a company of that size no matter how wrong the company is.
Exactly. The courts are local to the company, and heavily paid by their taxes. The company has deep pockets for attorneys and whatever court shenanigans that they can try. They have zero need to win, only to drag it out.
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