Writing a Job Posting
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@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@wirestyle22 said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
*We currently run on an hourly payment model. The time you bill to clients is what you are paid.
There is no vacation, but the hourly rate accounts for that. If you can't swing taking time off, it is your own fault.Wow, seems like a tough gig.
From your perspective maybe. But I take off when I want. I work when I want. For 2019 I put in 40/week most weeks.
You might have missed where the rate accounts for the time.
I worked 1983.5 hours in 2019. That is 96.5 less hours than 40 hours a week. Basically, I took 12 days completely off.In reality, I took off more than that, and worked more than 8 hours a day often.
Fuck your old school 8-5 bullshit concepts of a job.
If you have the self-discipline, this can be awesome - you could work 4 10's and have three day weekends, or better. The issue is when you want a continuous 7+ days off in a row - Does the company have other people to take over while you're gone?
What are the chances of a real 2 week (or even three week vacation)? Perhaps these are a reality to you - They have been for me.
Well at the moment, the possibility it near zero, but only because I need this person.
Financially, that onus is on me. When I was hired, I negotiated an hourly rate to account for ~80 hours of "vacation". If I don't have the financial ability to handle it, that is my own problem. I had the option to negotiate a typical "vacation" allotment and take a lower hourly rate. Math people. It is not that hard of a thing.
How frequently is your vacation interrupted by work? You're the highest level of support at your company so I have to imagine it's somewhat frequent. I'm curious if this is taken into account how much work/life balance you actually have
I'm not in his situation - but I can tell you I've taken a few 2 week vacations - and they have all been interrupted, But usually only for 20-30 mins, 1-3 times. My 3 week vacations (while traveling abroad) have had email interruptions that I get to when I get to in most cases.
My cruises are the only time I've ever actually been 100% off the grid.
In all case those - the callers know I'm on vacation, know my response times will be slow, if at all. generally they call to speed recovery of something. I can't say I've ever actually been bothered by a call, at least not enough to remember it. I'd rather have my company get back to working well, than not. Perhaps I've been lucky and didn't find myself strapped to a computer for 2 straight days because of an issue while on vacation.
I think it's up to the company to staff enough to cover their needs. We shouldn't be on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. We are human and need to decompress. I've changed a lot over the years as to what I am willing to do for the company that I work for.
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@wirestyle22 said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@wirestyle22 said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
*We currently run on an hourly payment model. The time you bill to clients is what you are paid.
There is no vacation, but the hourly rate accounts for that. If you can't swing taking time off, it is your own fault.Wow, seems like a tough gig.
From your perspective maybe. But I take off when I want. I work when I want. For 2019 I put in 40/week most weeks.
You might have missed where the rate accounts for the time.
I worked 1983.5 hours in 2019. That is 96.5 less hours than 40 hours a week. Basically, I took 12 days completely off.In reality, I took off more than that, and worked more than 8 hours a day often.
Fuck your old school 8-5 bullshit concepts of a job.
If you have the self-discipline, this can be awesome - you could work 4 10's and have three day weekends, or better. The issue is when you want a continuous 7+ days off in a row - Does the company have other people to take over while you're gone?
What are the chances of a real 2 week (or even three week vacation)? Perhaps these are a reality to you - They have been for me.
Well at the moment, the possibility it near zero, but only because I need this person.
Financially, that onus is on me. When I was hired, I negotiated an hourly rate to account for ~80 hours of "vacation". If I don't have the financial ability to handle it, that is my own problem. I had the option to negotiate a typical "vacation" allotment and take a lower hourly rate. Math people. It is not that hard of a thing.
How frequently is your vacation interrupted by work? You're the highest level of support at your company so I have to imagine it's somewhat frequent. I'm curious if this is taken into account how much work/life balance you actually have
I'm not in his situation - but I can tell you I've taken a few 2 week vacations - and they have all been interrupted, But usually only for 20-30 mins, 1-3 times. My 3 week vacations (while traveling abroad) have had email interruptions that I get to when I get to in most cases.
My cruises are the only time I've ever actually been 100% off the grid.
In all case those - the callers know I'm on vacation, know my response times will be slow, if at all. generally they call to speed recovery of something. I can't say I've ever actually been bothered by a call, at least not enough to remember it. I'd rather have my company get back to working well, than not. Perhaps I've been lucky and didn't find myself strapped to a computer for 2 straight days because of an issue while on vacation.
I think it's up to the company to staff enough to cover their needs. We shouldn't be on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. We are human and need to decompress. I've changed a lot over the years as to what I am willing to do for the company that I work for.
I hear ya - you have to weight a lot of things to see what it's worth to ya.
Scott clearly feels that the flexibility he has is worth the possibility of being called anytime - even on vacation, and I'm pretty sure he's the highest (or at least was) paid person here in this group.
I am not on call in the eyes of my boss - but like Scott - I don't care. It's my network, currently I'm more or less ultimately responsible for it (yeah yeah, don't get into the weeds here Scott or anyone) and I personally don't mind calls for higher level things while I'm on vacation. As I've said, they are generally short lived and pretty infrequent. So much so that they don't influence what I am doing on vacation in any way. Some people simply won't agree with that, and that's fine, they don't have to.
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@Dashrender the shorter way to say this is “I would rather fix a simple problem now than a disaster in a week”
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@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@flaxking said in Writing a Job Posting:
@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Obsolesce said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Obsolesce said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
That doesn't mean I can't get work done.
Working on vacation is totally an American concept.
Visiting the in-laws is not exactly a vacation either.
Heh, yeah I was going to add unless you are in Japan but not on vacation when you are working. Similar to how I did before, had a couple of weeks of true vacation, and worked remotely otherwise,while overseas.
That's the benefit to this type of workstyle. The "need" for a true vacation is so much less. Because I already do pretty much what I want.
Yeah, we talk about that at NTG a lot.... the "work as a lifestyle" type work. A career and job and company that let's your work and your life integrate. The idea of a vacation starts to not mean much. Vacations are conceptually for people who want to escape work and life. But we approach it as... you shouldn't want to escape your job. We try to make working here something people enjoy, not just "good enough for the paycheck."
Are you prepared to test that by offering unlimited paid vacation?
If the job is 100% remote, you basically get that - this doesn't mean you won't have scheduled times to be on conference calls, etc..
Maybe, sort of. But you are only thinking of engineers. Our team actually gets unlimited vacation / sick time.
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@IRJ said in Writing a Job Posting:
@jmoore said in Writing a Job Posting:
And for reference i have never taken a week vacation before. I can but never have. I think about it sometimes but then think about all the time I would spend at home playing video games drinking soda and beer that would ruin my weight lol. Plus, you don't learn anything if your not working. I really wish I lived closer because I would try it and I'm looking for a change anyway.
Thats usually a security issue
Some employers have regulations where they force emplyees to do a week at a time. Especially in finance so any foul play could be discovered and you make sure you can live without that person.
Oddly on Wall St., they never did this. Logicaly they should have. We had access to so much stuff. We were forced to work from home at least once a week, though.
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@IRJ said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Obsolesce said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
That doesn't mean I can't get work done.
Working on vacation is totally an American concept.
Its not for everyone including myself, but I think @scottalanmiller and @JaredBusch handle it very well they way they do vacation.
If it's a pass for you, then it doesnt mean its bad for others who can really manage their time.
For me, being forced to not check in while on vacation means I'm stressing out the whole time. It would suck. I need to at least be involved enough to know that things are okay.
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@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@wirestyle22 said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
*We currently run on an hourly payment model. The time you bill to clients is what you are paid.
There is no vacation, but the hourly rate accounts for that. If you can't swing taking time off, it is your own fault.Wow, seems like a tough gig.
From your perspective maybe. But I take off when I want. I work when I want. For 2019 I put in 40/week most weeks.
You might have missed where the rate accounts for the time.
I worked 1983.5 hours in 2019. That is 96.5 less hours than 40 hours a week. Basically, I took 12 days completely off.In reality, I took off more than that, and worked more than 8 hours a day often.
Fuck your old school 8-5 bullshit concepts of a job.
If you have the self-discipline, this can be awesome - you could work 4 10's and have three day weekends, or better. The issue is when you want a continuous 7+ days off in a row - Does the company have other people to take over while you're gone?
What are the chances of a real 2 week (or even three week vacation)? Perhaps these are a reality to you - They have been for me.
Well at the moment, the possibility it near zero, but only because I need this person.
Financially, that onus is on me. When I was hired, I negotiated an hourly rate to account for ~80 hours of "vacation". If I don't have the financial ability to handle it, that is my own problem. I had the option to negotiate a typical "vacation" allotment and take a lower hourly rate. Math people. It is not that hard of a thing.
How frequently is your vacation interrupted by work? You're the highest level of support at your company so I have to imagine it's somewhat frequent. I'm curious if this is taken into account how much work/life balance you actually have
I'm not in his situation - but I can tell you I've taken a few 2 week vacations - and they have all been interrupted, But usually only for 20-30 mins, 1-3 times. My 3 week vacations (while traveling abroad) have had email interruptions that I get to when I get to in most cases.
My cruises are the only time I've ever actually been 100% off the grid.
In all case those - the callers know I'm on vacation, know my response times will be slow, if at all. generally they call to speed recovery of something. I can't say I've ever actually been bothered by a call, at least not enough to remember it. I'd rather have my company get back to working well, than not. Perhaps I've been lucky and didn't find myself strapped to a computer for 2 straight days because of an issue while on vacation..
I just did 10 days with @CCWTech on vaca in Nicaragua. There were some interruptions, but very few. It was minor. If I plan ahead, I can get a pretty solid bit of time off.
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@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender the shorter way to say this is “I would rather fix a simple problem now than a disaster in a week”
15 minutes extra in the house today while on vacation beats the heck out of 36 hours straight next week when I am back in town!
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@JasGot said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender the shorter way to say this is “I would rather fix a simple problem now than a disaster in a week”
15 minutes extra in the house today while on vacation beats the heck out of 36 hours straight next week when I am back in town!
Yup. The flexibility to make time for yourself.
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Getting involved with the work back home has also become so much easier, faster, and cheaper than it used to be.
My wife and I are in Europe several times a year for one to three weeks at a time. In the 90's, before cellular companies were large enough to have a global footprint, I would often return with a $2,000 - $3,000 phone bill from spending time on the phone with issues here. No that I can roam globally without any change to my cellular plan/bill, and can remote control from anywhere, there is basically no financial downside to working while on vacation.
Just the stress of family staring at you while you continue to say "one more minute, please".
Of course, now, a tablet on my lap in the passenger seat allows me to take care of these things without delaying individual event while on vacation.
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@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@wirestyle22 said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
I am not on call in the eyes of my boss - but like Scott - I don't care. It's my network, currently I'm more or less ultimately responsible for it (yeah yeah, don't get into the weeds here Scott or anyone) and I personally don't mind calls for higher level things while I'm on vacation. As I've said, they are generally short lived and pretty infrequent. So much so that they don't influence what I am doing on vacation in any way. Some people simply won't agree with that, and that's fine, they don't have to.
I hear ya on this one. I feel pretty much the same way you do.
Wife doesn't much like it sometimes but, hey, have to fix what we have to fix when it needs fixing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Dashrender said in Writing a Job Posting:
@flaxking said in Writing a Job Posting:
@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Obsolesce said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Obsolesce said in Writing a Job Posting:
@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
That doesn't mean I can't get work done.
Working on vacation is totally an American concept.
Visiting the in-laws is not exactly a vacation either.
Heh, yeah I was going to add unless you are in Japan but not on vacation when you are working. Similar to how I did before, had a couple of weeks of true vacation, and worked remotely otherwise,while overseas.
That's the benefit to this type of workstyle. The "need" for a true vacation is so much less. Because I already do pretty much what I want.
Yeah, we talk about that at NTG a lot.... the "work as a lifestyle" type work. A career and job and company that let's your work and your life integrate. The idea of a vacation starts to not mean much. Vacations are conceptually for people who want to escape work and life. But we approach it as... you shouldn't want to escape your job. We try to make working here something people enjoy, not just "good enough for the paycheck."
Are you prepared to test that by offering unlimited paid vacation?
If the job is 100% remote, you basically get that - this doesn't mean you won't have scheduled times to be on conference calls, etc..
Maybe, sort of. But you are only thinking of engineers. Our team actually gets unlimited vacation / sick time.
At some point though they would not be doing any work, so I'm assuming you'd stop paying them.
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I'm all for flexible working, but wouldn't want a flexible salary. I get paid whether there's work or not. My bosses take my surplus labour (the revenue they earn from clients after paying my salary) as profit, but they also take the risk of not finding enough work.
I presume Jared's employee will be get extra compensation due to the risk he's taking on. But it wouldn't be for me. My bosses have an incentive to go and find work for me, because they don't have the option of not paying me. And finding work is something they're good at and I'm not (I'm not a salesman). I like that they do that and I like that they have an incentive to do it.
If I was going to take on risk in return for higher potential returns, then I would have started my own business, rather than being an employee.
But each to their own.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
I'm all for flexible working, but wouldn't want a flexible salary. I get paid whether there's work or not. My bosses take my surplus labour (the revenue they earn from clients after paying my salary) as profit, but they also take the risk of not finding enough work.
I presume Jared's employee will be get extra compensation due to the risk he's taking on. But it wouldn't be for me. My bosses have an incentive to go and find work for me, because they don't have the option of not paying me. And finding work is something they're good at and I'm not (I'm not a salesman). I like that they do that and I like that they have an incentive to do it.
If I was going to take on risk in return for higher potential returns, then I would have started my own business, rather than being an employee.
But each to their own.
A contractor in this situation is right in the middle between those two place though (normal full time employee and self employed).
That said - this wouldn't be a contractor situation - this would be an hourly - as needed situation, with benefits (the major announced benefit is that the employer will pay 1/2 of their insurance premiums - no other benefits currently listed).Something else I just considered - running the travel expenses through the company in leu of additional funds on the hourly rate.
If the employee takes the additional funds, they will actually need to consider the tax implications of those added funds (Something I failed to consider in my earlier math). if the employee simply gets paid salary to cover those expenses, the employee can't write off the mileage on their own taxes, AND will be paying income/FICA taxes on that money... -
@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
I'm all for flexible working, but wouldn't want a flexible salary. I get paid whether there's work or not.
Right, that's how we handle it. High flex, stable salary. Salary is the same all the time (hence the term salary, lol.)
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@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
If I was going to take on risk in return for higher potential returns, then I would have started my own business, rather than being an employee.
That's a good point, the way that this works is almost like an entrepreneur but with an existing framework for it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
If I was going to take on risk in return for higher potential returns, then I would have started my own business, rather than being an employee.
That's a good point, the way that this works is almost like an entrepreneur but with an existing framework for it.
And the risk level is much lower than starting your own business.
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@JaredBusch said in Writing a Job Posting:
@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
@Carnival-Boy said in Writing a Job Posting:
If I was going to take on risk in return for higher potential returns, then I would have started my own business, rather than being an employee.
That's a good point, the way that this works is almost like an entrepreneur but with an existing framework for it.
And the risk level is much lower than starting your own business.
Very true. People tend to think that starting your own business is all roses and dance parties. It's hard, risky and it sucks. So much work, so much stress. It has its rewards, but they come at a price.
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@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
It's hard, risky and it sucks.
You must be going to some crazy parties...
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@Obsolesce said in Writing a Job Posting:
@scottalanmiller said in Writing a Job Posting:
It's hard, risky and it sucks.
You must be going to some crazy parties...
I absolutely do.
