SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory
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@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
ncryption at rest does nothing for you once the OS is booted. So a stolen device is mostly safe. But an unlocked workstation isn't, unless you require authentication for each access - which would drive users crazy...
Assuming a non local admin user logs into another profile - they likely can't reach the files synced in some other profile in OD, so those are likely safe too.That just comes down to good practices. Stolen device is safe. There are no local accounts, no local admin privileged accounts either, not AD joined, encrypted, 2FA / Windows Hello enforced. (in my environment)
Does windows boot before a login is done by the user? If yes, how in an offline mode are you preventing bruteforce attacks? of course they would be so slow - who really cares?
Huh? It's not like you can boot the machine to Windows login screen, and also connect the hard drive to another OS at the same time. No brute forcing, and a per-device problem, not a wide spread one. If it's stolen, it's remote wiped as well.
I was curious if the local TPM (which I assume holds the Bitlocker Key) has to be unlocked before the computer will boot. If yes, then bruteforce attacks against the Windows logon can't happen in a stolen machine, if not - they can.
Of course, the drive is encrypted - so if it's removed and placed in another computer now you have to brute force the drive encryption - like much harder.
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@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
ncryption at rest does nothing for you once the OS is booted. So a stolen device is mostly safe. But an unlocked workstation isn't, unless you require authentication for each access - which would drive users crazy...
Assuming a non local admin user logs into another profile - they likely can't reach the files synced in some other profile in OD, so those are likely safe too.That just comes down to good practices. Stolen device is safe. There are no local accounts, no local admin privileged accounts either, not AD joined, encrypted, 2FA / Windows Hello enforced. (in my environment)
Does windows boot before a login is done by the user? If yes, how in an offline mode are you preventing bruteforce attacks? of course they would be so slow - who really cares?
Huh? It's not like you can boot the machine to Windows login screen, and also connect the hard drive to another OS at the same time. No brute forcing, and a per-device problem, not a wide spread one. If it's stolen, it's remote wiped as well.
I was curious if the local TPM (which I assume holds the Bitlocker Key) has to be unlocked before the computer will boot. If yes, then bruteforce attacks against the Windows logon can't happen in a stolen machine, if not - they can.
Of course, the drive is encrypted - so if it's removed and placed in another computer now you have to brute force the drive encryption - like much harder.
Exactly this.
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@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
ncryption at rest does nothing for you once the OS is booted. So a stolen device is mostly safe. But an unlocked workstation isn't, unless you require authentication for each access - which would drive users crazy...
Assuming a non local admin user logs into another profile - they likely can't reach the files synced in some other profile in OD, so those are likely safe too.That just comes down to good practices. Stolen device is safe. There are no local accounts, no local admin privileged accounts either, not AD joined, encrypted, 2FA / Windows Hello enforced. (in my environment)
Does windows boot before a login is done by the user? If yes, how in an offline mode are you preventing bruteforce attacks? of course they would be so slow - who really cares?
Huh? It's not like you can boot the machine to Windows login screen, and also connect the hard drive to another OS at the same time. No brute forcing, and a per-device problem, not a wide spread one. If it's stolen, it's remote wiped as well.
I was curious if the local TPM (which I assume holds the Bitlocker Key) has to be unlocked before the computer will boot. If yes, then bruteforce attacks against the Windows logon can't happen in a stolen machine, if not - they can.
Of course, the drive is encrypted - so if it's removed and placed in another computer now you have to brute force the drive encryption - like much harder.
BitLocker using TPM only protects it if the drive is taken out. Using it with a PIN adds some more protection, but the point is encryption at rest. Not to keep you out of the OS.
It's not meant to protect your data while Windows is running.
@Dashrender what are you trying to get at? What scenario?
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@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
If it's stolen, it's remote wiped as well.
Not they are not. To be remote wiped, they must be online.
To be online, they must be booted. and connected to the internet.A laptop is stolen for 2 reasons.
- Someone wants to get your data.
- Someone made an opportunity swipe and doesn't care about your data.
In scenario 1, the machine is never brought online when booted. So it is never wiped.
In scenario 2, the idiot drops it at pawn shop for $50. The pawn shop boots it once to see if they got lucky and have an unsecured device that they may get data from. Then they wipe it to a factory Windows install.
So your tool may wipe it in scenario 2. but they pawn shop doesn't care. They were going to wipe it anyway.
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@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
ncryption at rest does nothing for you once the OS is booted. So a stolen device is mostly safe. But an unlocked workstation isn't, unless you require authentication for each access - which would drive users crazy...
Assuming a non local admin user logs into another profile - they likely can't reach the files synced in some other profile in OD, so those are likely safe too.That just comes down to good practices. Stolen device is safe. There are no local accounts, no local admin privileged accounts either, not AD joined, encrypted, 2FA / Windows Hello enforced. (in my environment)
Does windows boot before a login is done by the user? If yes, how in an offline mode are you preventing bruteforce attacks? of course they would be so slow - who really cares?
Huh? It's not like you can boot the machine to Windows login screen, and also connect the hard drive to another OS at the same time. No brute forcing, and a per-device problem, not a wide spread one. If it's stolen, it's remote wiped as well.
I was curious if the local TPM (which I assume holds the Bitlocker Key) has to be unlocked before the computer will boot. If yes, then bruteforce attacks against the Windows logon can't happen in a stolen machine, if not - they can.
Of course, the drive is encrypted - so if it's removed and placed in another computer now you have to brute force the drive encryption - like much harder.
BitLocker using TPM only protects it if the drive is taken out. Using it with a PIN adds some more protection, but the point is encryption at rest. Not to keep you out of the OS.
It's not meant to protect your data while Windows is running.
@Dashrender what are you trying to get at? What scenario?
The entire point was a stolen device.
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@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
In scenario 1, the machine is never brought online when booted. So it is never wiped.
Obviously...
So in this case there's two options:
- Boot the device and come to the Windows logon screen.
- Take the drive out / live boot to something else.
Scenario 1: Good luck!
Scenario 2: BitLockered out, again, good luck! -
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
In scenario 1, the machine is never brought online when booted. So it is never wiped.
Obviously...
So in this case there's two options:
- Boot the device and come to the Windows logon screen.
- Take the drive out / live boot to something else.
Scenario 1: Good luck!
Scenario 2: BitLockered out, again, good luck!You are obviously having a hard time grasping things here.
Scenario 1 is people that know what they are doing. there is no good luck required.
Scenario 2 is people that don't give a fuck about what data is on the machine. -
@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@Obsolesce said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
In scenario 1, the machine is never brought online when booted. So it is never wiped.
Obviously...
So in this case there's two options:
- Boot the device and come to the Windows logon screen.
- Take the drive out / live boot to something else.
Scenario 1: Good luck!
Scenario 2: BitLockered out, again, good luck!You are obviously having a hard time grasping things here.
Scenario 1 is people that know what they are doing. there is no good luck required.
Scenario 2 is people that don't give a fuck about what data is on the machine.You misunderstood my post. The entire post was regarding your scenario 1, as I quoted it, and only that.
Both of my listed options and scenarios were in regards to your scenario 1.
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@JaredBusch said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
Scenario 1 is people that know what they are doing. there is no good luck required.
And, you have no idea what you are talking about!
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@Dashrender said in SAMIT: Do You Really Need Active Directory:
I am surprised that MS didn't come out with a better solution for this ages ago. That whole Direct Connect or whatever it was called - phone home VPN solution they have for Enterprise edition only - what a kluge.
They are working on phasing this out. DirectAccess was a kludge that is being replaced by Always-On-VPN. Which works on versions of Windows Professional and Up and requires very little outside of a certificate and Group Policies (or Intune).
