MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
As for the old hardware, you're not a home user - you can completely manage these devices on your own. These people can not. The cost of upgrading isn't worth it in my opinion compared to the other advantages they gain with a newer system.
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
you are being their tech support and what? doing it free?
In my case - I tell them that it's not worth paying me to do it for them. As for as moving them to a Linux distro - it's just not going to happen, not by me, not for people who aren't my extremely close friends who I don't supporting for free.
All of these people who I am telling this to are people who are unable/unwilling to do it themselves, so they need to pay someone to do it.
Completely this. By the time you pay for 2-3 hours of work to do the Windows 10 upgrade, you have bought a new computer. This is a simple sunk cost.
Hardware of this age, while it can work just fine, is pointless to spend the time/cost to upgrade the OS like this.
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Please PLEASE PLEASE do NOT buy those A series AMD laptops - that processor is such a piece of SHIT and it 100x slower than a 8 year old i5 processor. Seriously - I know, I ordered 6 of them before knowing they were shit, and sadly, couldn't return them...
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I had a Win 7 box that hadn't been updated since the c:\windows\temp\cab_* file bug. When I hit update on it yesterday, it said "Upgrading to Windows 10".
I kinda agree with Microsoft on that one, just do it already. Personally, I wouldn't spend my time supporting the things if I had a say in the matter.
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@JaredBusch said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
Bullshit you have. Maybe a friend or acquaintance or two. But you are not supporting people for free. Total bullshit answer.
Actually a pretty large customer with scores of gear. And other customers. And acquaintances too. We actually met with a large multi-city logistics firm just yesterday doing this.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Please PLEASE PLEASE do NOT buy those A series AMD laptops - that processor is such a piece of SHIT and it 100x slower than a 8 year old i5 processor. Seriously - I know, I ordered 6 of them before knowing they were shit, and sadly, couldn't return them...
Well an A series is supposed to be below an i3. But we use A10 here and while they aren't screaming fast, they are pretty good. If you have an i5 and a discrete GPU, heck yeah that's going to blow away an A series - while costing twice as much or more. But if you are using an i3 and software GPU, the A10 will give it a good run at probably a lower price.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Again, this is where I disagree - they won't find any apps they are familiar with in that appstore, and this is the huge rub.
What apps are people still using Windows 7 only upgrading because of support using or needing? Evaluate that. I bet you find that the answer is... zero. The "we don't have an app" for that argument is weak, because the average user doesn't need any apps. And the "familiar" argument is weak because modern Windows 10 doesn't have what they are used to in its app store either.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
People, Mac and Windows users alike, are accustomed to looking online for downloadable installers to get the apps they want. Assuming you can drill into someone's head that they have Fedora and not Linux (because knowing it's Linux is beyond useless to them) so they look for applications that are compatible.
Why drill that into their head instead of drilling in how everything is now easy, that they can actually do it, and it's free? You are intentionally taking a hard track instead of the super easy one.
- The average user needs no apps at all (this is why Chromebooks work so well.)
- What little the next main group of people need is trivial and you just show them the software store on any OS (Windows works the same, just not well) and ta da, problem solved.
- The remaining group is relatively small and niche. Maybe it's 15%, but it's not big in the consumer space.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Could they learn to find the printer add function - probably..
could they learn where to find where their pictures are stored - probably.
etc.
so from that point, it would likely work out OK.If you deal with end users any amount, these are exactly functions that Windows makes pretty hard, at least in comparison. We have customers on Windows literally bring us in to "find their photos" because Windows made it so obtuse and confusing. Their decision was to move to Ubuntu to make that task easier!
That was literally last week.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
But will almost always run Ubuntu or Fedora (and definitely ChromeOS) way faster. Not just a little faster, like crazy faster.
How are you getting ChromeOS on an Intel box that had been running windows?
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Could they learn to find the printer add function - probably..
could they learn where to find where their pictures are stored - probably.
etc.
so from that point, it would likely work out OK.If you deal with end users any amount, these are exactly functions that Windows makes pretty hard, at least in comparison. We have customers on Windows literally bring us in to "find their photos" because Windows made it so obtuse and confusing. Their decision was to move to Ubuntu to make that task easier!
That was literally last week.
Well Nautilus file manager is very basic and has a decent search function.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@JaredBusch said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
I've been doing this for home users. Pop on Ubuntu, Fedora, or ChromeOS. Suddenly it's fast and nowhere near end of life. And finally secure and easy to use!
Bullshit you have. Maybe a friend or acquaintance or two. But you are not supporting people for free. Total bullshit answer.
Actually a pretty large customer with scores of gear. And other customers. And acquaintances too. We actually met with a large multi-city logistics firm just yesterday doing this.
Yeah, this is not home users, this is ITSP customers... so you're being paid. Sure, rolling out the upgrade might be worth while in that situation - likely is because they are delaying the spending of money on the migration to a new device, AND as you've said - the upgrade does work pretty damned well.
I'm mainly suggesting this for home users - people who likely won't pay me, or even if they do, if they have any issues, they'll come calling to me and often expect me to fix them for free (i.e. included in previous work).. it's just not worth the hassle in most cases. Of course, they could run into issues on the new device as well, but at least they won't have any legacy cruft from the old machine.
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@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Please PLEASE PLEASE do NOT buy those A series AMD laptops - that processor is such a piece of SHIT and it 100x slower than a 8 year old i5 processor. Seriously - I know, I ordered 6 of them before knowing they were shit, and sadly, couldn't return them...
Well an A series is supposed to be below an i3. But we use A10 here and while they aren't screaming fast, they are pretty good. If you have an i5 and a discrete GPU, heck yeah that's going to blow away an A series - while costing twice as much or more. But if you are using an i3 and software GPU, the A10 will give it a good run at probably a lower price.
The A9 -9420 (2016) is a complete turd. For windows 10 with 8 GB RAM and an SSD, it's still barely usable, no strike that - it's really not usable. Loading webpages (athenaNet EHR specifically) is horribly slow compared to i5-3210m (2012) with HDD and 4 GB of RAM.
I'm not kidding, when I replaced people's machines - they asked for their old one back.
The online reading I did about this chip (a9-9420) was that it was a total turd, and was a huge blow to AMD.
I haven't used any A10 chips... and maybe, perhaps the Ryzen chips actually are worth a damn compared to the i5's of the world (or better). But getting me to actually spend my money on them.. it's so hard when I've been burned so many times by AMD chips. Am I just unlucky and only end up buying the turd AMD chips? Granted, the last ones I had were from the XP days, and they were tolerable, but dealing with the AMD 4-in-1 drivers was a PITA. -
@scottalanmiller said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
Could they learn to find the printer add function - probably..
could they learn where to find where their pictures are stored - probably.
etc.
so from that point, it would likely work out OK.If you deal with end users any amount, these are exactly functions that Windows makes pretty hard, at least in comparison. We have customers on Windows literally bring us in to "find their photos" because Windows made it so obtuse and confusing. Their decision was to move to Ubuntu to make that task easier!
That was literally last week.
Interesting example - Windows made finding photos hard? I haven't look at Ubuntu in a long while, though unless there is a folder on the desktop that says photos and that is the ONLY place photos can exist on the machine, I don't see how it would really be any easier than windows. When you open Explorer in Windows, the pictures folder is right there, that's the default location for pictures... of course a user can easily put their photos any place they want, the OS isn't going to fix that problem.
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@Obsolesce said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
IMO, if someone can use Windows 7,they can use Linux with Cinnamon with no training at all.
Oh sure they can, I totally agree. They just won't give it a chance. The people I'm talking about are older church people that i support and they won't even consider it. I've tried before.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
The reality is that this is already not true
What I'm saying is they won't give it a chance at all. They will not move to another OS or give it a shot. Of course they could learn it, but they refuse when I've asked.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
they won't find any apps they are familiar with in that appstore, and this is the huge rub
Your right about that, they do expect things a certain way and just don't want to learn any other way.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
The A9 -9420 (2016) is a complete turd
I like your technical term there
Your right though about those processors, they have little power. -
@jmoore said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
@Obsolesce said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
IMO, if someone can use Windows 7,they can use Linux with Cinnamon with no training at all.
Oh sure they can, I totally agree. They just won't give it a chance. The people I'm talking about are older church people that i support and they won't even consider it. I've tried before.
Then if it's that bad, don't tell them. They likely won't notice. If they notice anything, just say it's the updated system, show them where the app store is, and leave it at that.
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@Dashrender said in MS Windows 7 SP1 Full Screen Alert:
and maybe, perhaps the Ryzen chips actually are worth a damn compared to the i5's of the world (or better). But getting me to actually spend my money on them.. it's so hard when I've been burned so many times by AMD chips. Am I just unlucky and only end up buying the turd AMD chips?
The new Ryzen chips are definitely worth a damn. They are the real deal. I have a Ryzen 5 3600 and its a beast, and that it's only $180 is huge too.
We bought a burner laptop a few years back with one of the AMD A-Series chips and it was for sure a total piece of shit. Don't hold that against them though, I bet if you bought a new laptop with a Celeron chip you'd be very disappointed, too.
