Can Windows 7 Still Upgrade to Windows 10
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@manxam said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
While the licensing server for the upgrades will still take a Windows 7 key, Microsoft does not consider this a valid entitlement / activation when it comes time for an audit (not a fake "SAM" audit, but one done through KPMG, Delloite, etc.).
Just because I left my house's front door open doesn't mean that you're entitle to all the items within. Sure, you could take them, but it doesn't mean you legally own them...
Currently - I completely agree with you.
That said - audits through those companies could prove little more than the install date of your Windows 10 install. They can't prove if you did or didn't do the upgrade before the free upgrade expired. The only ones that can do that is MS themselves - and that assumes they are tracking the digital entitlement they granted you, AND that MS will actually give up this information.
Once you have the entitlement, you can reformat and reinstall anytime as many times as you like. There's no tracking on the machine when the original upgrade entitlement was placed.
So I have no clue how KPMG, Delloite, etc would find your environment in this case.
Proving is always hard. But the real question should be "if everyone told the truth", what is the situation...
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@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@manxam said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@Dashrender said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
just because you can does not make it legal.
THANK YOU! I said the same above but was quickly dismissed.
From a Microsoft Licensing standpoint (and of this I am 100% certain), there is no free and compliant method to upgrade Windows 7 to Windows 10 at this time.
If a computer came with a Windows 10 entitlement and downgrade rights to Windows 7, one can still "upgrade" to Windows 10 without additional cost.While the licensing server for the upgrades will still take a Windows 7 key, Microsoft does not consider this a valid entitlement / activation when it comes time for an audit (not a fake "SAM" audit, but one done through KPMG, Delloite, etc.).
Just because I left my house's front door open doesn't mean that you're entitle to all the items within. Sure, you could take them, but it doesn't mean you legally own them...
This is specifically for use cases of people who are disabled and would have a difficult time upgrading to the current OS free of charge. Windows 10 is completely free of charge if you've previously purchased Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 and have any of those 3 installed on a computer system today.
no - this is completely wrong.
the only possible way upgrading is free is through the accessibility path. the normal 'free' upgrade expired in 2016.
You're clearly wrong. The accessibility path is the "easy" approach for those who are disabled. Everyone else uses Windows MCT.
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@DustinB3403 MCT?
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@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 MCT?
Media Creation Tool
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 MCT?
Media Creation Tool
We've been using it for over a year.
Want an ISO? Make it. Need a DVD? Ok. Upgrade in place? It'll handle it for you. -
Here is a real question, not trying to be leading...
First some facts: It is the EULA and licenses that determine what are valid updates, along with any published allowances. MS saying that something expires alone does not expire the option for customers. Information posted on a web site is only valid if there is something linking the customer to that information.
What we know that MS currently offers: Free upgrade media toolkits that do no list any known upgrade limits to use. That tool kits are not tied to a path that says that upgrades have expired. The tool kit checks your license and verifies that you are valid and states so. There is no workaround, no trick, no hack. This is a direct "download as MS tells you to" and "MS verifies the license".
Given that MS provides the tool, and provides the verification that it is correct... which part of the license is being violated? MS is the one providing all of the pieces, as promoted.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 MCT?
Media Creation Tool
Oh, gotcha. That's what does the assistive tech path, too.
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@scotth said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@DustinB3403 MCT?
Media Creation Tool
We've been using it for over a year.
Want an ISO? Make it. Need a DVD? Ok. Upgrade in place? It'll handle it for you.And it verifies the license key to make sure that it is valid. Since Windows 10 does "rolling updates" and no longer has versions, it's logical that it "just works" as an upgrade path the way that they promote it.
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Exactly, so anyone stating that "there is no free upgrade" is just wrong, so long as you're using the tool provided and it just works the upgrade is free of charge and perfectly legal.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
Exactly, so anyone stating that "there is no free upgrade" is just wrong, so long as you're using the tool provided and it just works the upgrade is free of charge and perfectly legal.
I'm digging through the licensing to see where it would state otherwise.
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I know that some of our Windows 7 machines have, in the last few months, popped up the Windows 10 upgrade automatically, from MS. So I know for a fact that the upgrade is legal. But finding paperwork on it is the hard part. But the OS itself has listed Windows 10 as the "patch".
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@scottalanmiller I read the "little text" right from their website and there is no statement about who can use the tool to upgrade to Windows 10 there either.
I would be incredibly surprised if there was some hidden statement and MS is just collecting the information to sue everyone and their cousins all at once.
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Worth noting.... MS doesn't provide support for the upgrade path of Windows 10. Haven't found any restrictions on installation, but they don't have a support channel. However, they never provide support, so not sure what that even matters.
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@DustinB3403 said in Started as Win 7 Issue.. Now Job Searching?:
@scottalanmiller I read the "little text" right from their website and there is no statement about who can use the tool to upgrade to Windows 10 there either.
I would be incredibly surprised if there was some hidden statement and MS is just collecting the information to sue everyone and their cousins all at once.
Right, it's a super plan "here is your Windows 10 upgrade" tool, that lists no restrictions, and when installed checks your license and says that you are licensed. Since there is no "work around" done, MS has verified that it is legal.
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The Windows 10 EULA even has the verbage for having gotten the software directly from MS without there having been a sale involved. The EULA definitely is written, in its latest form from June 2018, to support the MCT from Windows 7 path.
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@DustinB3403 : So, hold on.. you're saying that Microsoft, who makes the product, and says you're wrong on these pages :
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information
AND
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4026456/windows-how-to-get-windows-10
AND
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12435/windows-10-upgrade-faqIs, in fact, incorrect?
@Dashrender : The actual license audits requested by Microsoft are performed by the larger accounting firms. I know of a local company that was audited by KPMG at the behest of Microsoft to perform an LLC audit. Microsoft provided all of the license information (i.e. activation dates, rearms, etc.) to them for the purpose of this investigation.
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@scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
Here's another thing that clearly states you must have a valid Windows 10 license to use the MCT. I know just because their website says it that it doesn't necessarily mean it's true, but everything I can find says you need a valid license.
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@scottalanmiller
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm
a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the software. -
Unless someone provides "in path" documentation that would supersede this, here is the section that makes the Windows 7 to Windows 10 upgrade fully legal (in conjunction with the MCT acquisition, the key verification, activation, etc. all being approved by MS)...
"Installation and Use Rights.
a. License. The software is licensed, not sold. Under this agreement, we grant you the right to install and run one instance of the software on your device (the licensed device), for use by one person at a time, so long as you comply with all the terms of this agreement. Updating or upgrading from non-genuine software with software from Microsoft or authorized sources does not make your original version or the updated/upgraded version genuine, and in that situation, you do not have a license to use the softwa"
Microsoft provides the license for use here. And stipulates how you could have violated it. Once you accept the EULA, and haven't tricked MS, they've legally agreed to its use. Seems really clear. And not just clear in general, but they even state that non-genuine keys that would trick it into accepting the install aren't valid, implying that genuine ones are.
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Now the one thing that may tie @WrCombs bosses / business hands is if Aloha themselves stipulated that support system specifically as it was sold, and that without authorization from Aloha or a purchased upgrade can they upgrade a client systems, be it a bug patch, OS upgrade, security fix or whatever.
But nothing has been stated to explain that, which I doubt it could be stated as @WrCombs isn't the person in the know.
