Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question
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@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
Looking at two or three Dell R940s, couple of TB of RAM in each box and 4 processors in each. Or possibly a Starwind solution, depending on price.
What kind of workload do you run? R940 are awesome for Linux, terrible for Windows.
Windows Server 2012 R2 to 2019, mostly. Around 500 VM. R940, why so bad?
Because of MASSIVE licensing penalties. I mean staggering. It's so big that Microsoft has essentially created the one and two CPU server market and 8-core CPU market all on their own. The Windows licensing is so expensive, and so useless at scale, that basically everyone buys more small servers rather than fewer big ones because it turns out to be cheaper while giving you more power.
Servers larger than 16 cores and two sockets are almost exclusively for the Linux market. There are exceptions, but only for enterprise shops who are trapped with massive vertical workloads that only run on Windows which is basically a huge failure in and of itself, so pretty rare.
In reality, though, this reflects Microsoft's understanding of their own market. Big workloads that need huge vertical scaling would be insane to exist on Windows in the first place. So they are simply punishing foolish behavior and making money on people doing things poorly.
I've been told not to worry about that side of things re licensing, otherwise totally agree. That's the licensing teams problem. I've pretty much need told (not that I understand or need to understand) that we are at a certain partnership level with Microsoft and they allow us to use whatever we want, as long as we stay at that level. So, they have said if you want 20 x Windows Server Data enter licenses or 50, that's fine.
That team could be wrong, but it's not my problem.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
Looking at two or three Dell R940s, couple of TB of RAM in each box and 4 processors in each. Or possibly a Starwind solution, depending on price.
What kind of workload do you run? R940 are awesome for Linux, terrible for Windows.
Windows Server 2012 R2 to 2019, mostly. Around 500 VM. R940, why so bad?
Because of MASSIVE licensing penalties. I mean staggering. It's so big that Microsoft has essentially created the one and two CPU server market and 8-core CPU market all on their own. The Windows licensing is so expensive, and so useless at scale, that basically everyone buys more small servers rather than fewer big ones because it turns out to be cheaper while giving you more power.
Servers larger than 16 cores and two sockets are almost exclusively for the Linux market. There are exceptions, but only for enterprise shops who are trapped with massive vertical workloads that only run on Windows which is basically a huge failure in and of itself, so pretty rare.
In reality, though, this reflects Microsoft's understanding of their own market. Big workloads that need huge vertical scaling would be insane to exist on Windows in the first place. So they are simply punishing foolish behavior and making money on people doing things poorly.
I've been told not to worry about that side of things re licensing, otherwise totally agree. That's the licensing teams problem. I've pretty much need told (not that I understand or need to understand) that we are at a certain partnership level with Microsoft and they allow us to use whatever we want, as long as we stay at that level. So, they have said if you want 20 x Windows Server Data enter licenses or 50, that's fine.
That team could be wrong, but it's not my problem.
That makes a little more sense. They've negotiated a deal with Microsoft from the sounds of it.
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@travisdh1 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
Looking at two or three Dell R940s, couple of TB of RAM in each box and 4 processors in each. Or possibly a Starwind solution, depending on price.
What kind of workload do you run? R940 are awesome for Linux, terrible for Windows.
Windows Server 2012 R2 to 2019, mostly. Around 500 VM. R940, why so bad?
Because of MASSIVE licensing penalties. I mean staggering. It's so big that Microsoft has essentially created the one and two CPU server market and 8-core CPU market all on their own. The Windows licensing is so expensive, and so useless at scale, that basically everyone buys more small servers rather than fewer big ones because it turns out to be cheaper while giving you more power.
Servers larger than 16 cores and two sockets are almost exclusively for the Linux market. There are exceptions, but only for enterprise shops who are trapped with massive vertical workloads that only run on Windows which is basically a huge failure in and of itself, so pretty rare.
In reality, though, this reflects Microsoft's understanding of their own market. Big workloads that need huge vertical scaling would be insane to exist on Windows in the first place. So they are simply punishing foolish behavior and making money on people doing things poorly.
I've been told not to worry about that side of things re licensing, otherwise totally agree. That's the licensing teams problem. I've pretty much need told (not that I understand or need to understand) that we are at a certain partnership level with Microsoft and they allow us to use whatever we want, as long as we stay at that level. So, they have said if you want 20 x Windows Server Data enter licenses or 50, that's fine.
That team could be wrong, but it's not my problem.
That makes a little more sense. They've negotiated a deal with Microsoft from the sounds of it.
Yeah, I'll never know that side as it'll be a specialised team here. Even going from 20 blades each with DC licensing down to 3 T940 would be less overall.
Any other reason than licensing?
I've reached out to Starwind too to see what they could do for us.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
I've been told not to worry about that side of things re licensing, otherwise totally agree. That's the licensing teams problem.
That's exactly what MS wants... the people spending the big money never coordinating with the people paying the bills. That's how they get you spending twice what you should, because no one who knows what is needed knows what is spent.
Imagine buying a car where the person paying for the car and the person choosing the features don't know what is going on!
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
I've pretty much need told (not that I understand or need to understand) that we are at a certain partnership level with Microsoft and they allow us to use whatever we want, as long as we stay at that level. So, they have said if you want 20 x Windows Server Data enter licenses or 50, that's fine.
Yeah... that's not a real level
They just aren't licensing them, I would guess.
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@travisdh1 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
That makes a little more sense. They've negotiated a deal with Microsoft from the sounds of it.
No, way, way more likely they just figured out how hard it is to get caught.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
Yeah, I'll never know that side as it'll be a specialised team here. Even going from 20 blades each with DC licensing down to 3 T940 would be less overall.
No, it would be likely more. If you were paying non-negotiated rates. Weird that they would have a specialist team if they had that kind of agreement, that agreement is supposed to exist to eliminate for any licensing team. The moment you have a team, that agreement makes no sense or vice versa.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
Any other reason than licensing?
No, that's the one factor driving the whole global market around that decision making. Otherwise nearly everyone beyond a certain size would be on four CPU systems.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@travisdh1 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
That makes a little more sense. They've negotiated a deal with Microsoft from the sounds of it.
No, way, way more likely they just figured out how hard it is to get caught.
I totally doubt anything like that is going on here. I have been told our annual budget for licensing which we pay is in the region of £600,000. Either way, not my problem
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@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@travisdh1 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
That makes a little more sense. They've negotiated a deal with Microsoft from the sounds of it.
No, way, way more likely they just figured out how hard it is to get caught.
I totally doubt anything like that is going on here. I have been told our annual budget for licensing which we pay is in the region of £600,000. Either way, not my problem
Wow. But, sounds like only that high because they don't know what they are using, lol. The only way to get licensing truly down is to know what you use. Someone is both ignoring what is used, but also encouraging unlimited use. Both things set MS up to just keep making it more and more expensive. It's a trick, sounds easy, but makes one lazy licensing person encourage not keeping licensing lean - basically giving Microsoft the power to charge anything that they want down the road.
Yeah, not your problem, but definitely a symptom of management issues and a lack of clear thinking. If they are truly paying their bills, my guess is a licensing "specialist" who has created their own job and knows if MS isn't used heavily, their job would go away, so is doing stuff to encourage you to lock in MS so that that specialist can't be eliminated. Basically creating their own job.
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@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@Jimmy9008 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@scottalanmiller said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
@travisdh1 said in Dell MD1220 RAID 5 Rebuild Question:
That makes a little more sense. They've negotiated a deal with Microsoft from the sounds of it.
No, way, way more likely they just figured out how hard it is to get caught.
I totally doubt anything like that is going on here. I have been told our annual budget for licensing which we pay is in the region of £600,000. Either way, not my problem
Wow. But, sounds like only that high because they don't know what they are using, lol. The only way to get licensing truly down is to know what you use. Someone is both ignoring what is used, but also encouraging unlimited use. Both things set MS up to just keep making it more and more expensive. It's a trick, sounds easy, but makes one lazy licensing person encourage not keeping licensing lean - basically giving Microsoft the power to charge anything that they want down the road.
Yeah, not your problem, but definitely a symptom of management issues and a lack of clear thinking. If they are truly paying their bills, my guess is a licensing "specialist" who has created their own job and knows if MS isn't used heavily, their job would go away, so is doing stuff to encourage you to lock in MS so that that specialist can't be eliminated. Basically creating their own job.
Yeah, I don't disagree with anything you said. It's just not my issue. I still get to buy shiny new toys
