Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
I'm not saying it's not, but without a national difference, culture difference, etc. what really makes it travel more than running to the store? Pure distance? Maybe distance is enough, but for LA, that's all that there is.
lol - yeah - I guess it mainly is purely distance. I'm not into the culture thing like you are. I like amusement parks, and other types of tourist things.. the different food aspects can be interesting.. etc.
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@coliver said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I'm not saying that domestic travel isn't valid, just that to most of the world when you say "I like to travel" they assume you mean international. Not "I drive nearby on the weekend."
In Panama, for example, traveling to a different region to go to the beach is not considered travel, it's just what you do on weekends. In America, going to Florida for the weekend is considered a travel activity. Same thing, different viewpoints of the same activity.
To be fair most countries (outside of China, Russia, and India) have a miniscule landmass compared to the US. It doesn't take then 18 hours to drive to province in the same nation.
Although let's also compare real world "travel" needs. For one of NTG's team members in Panama to get from her home to the main resort portion of Panama (not the islands, that would make it way longer, still mainland) is a 12.5 hour drive. Far from 18 hours, but far longer than people assume for such a "small" country. The US might be way bigger, but the speed at which we drive around is so much faster than nearly anywhere else.
And 18 hours in the US doesn't cross any significant cultural borders. That same 12 hour drive in Panama crosses some significant ones including ones where the laws, race, history, culture, language, and food all change at least twice.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
Well compared to typical Americans - you're absolutely right. But I don't believe its for lack of cash to do so, it's because culturally, Americans spend their money on things other than traveling.
toss in the fact that almost no American business will allow a person to be gone for more than 2 weeks in a row - renting a house for months like you have is just weird to most Americans.
I bet for the opposite reasons, though. So few Americans push to take long travel, that companies have adjusted to take advantage of the "norm".
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
I'm not saying it's not, but without a national difference, culture difference, etc. what really makes it travel more than running to the store? Pure distance? Maybe distance is enough, but for LA, that's all that there is.
lol - yeah - I guess it mainly is purely distance. I'm not into the culture thing like you are. I like amusement parks, and other types of tourist things.. the different food aspects can be interesting.. etc.
Right, and that's fine, but I think very few people globally consider that traveling. For example, why would going to Six Flags in NY be "traveling" (other than distance, duh) compared to going to Six Flags Dallas? Same thing, just copied in another place.
It's like eating at McDonald's multiple places in the same country, you might be "traveling" to get from one to another, but avoiding the local culture to do a cookie cutter experience isn't what normal people think of when you state "travel." It's like being forced to go a physical distance, but being as "anti-travel" as you can get within the context.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
Well compared to typical Americans - you're absolutely right. But I don't believe its for lack of cash to do so, it's because culturally, Americans spend their money on things other than traveling.
toss in the fact that almost no American business will allow a person to be gone for more than 2 weeks in a row - renting a house for months like you have is just weird to most Americans.
I bet for the opposite reasons, though. So few Americans push to take long travel, that companies have adjusted to take advantage of the "norm".
that's an interesting take. So the American culture of what - homesteading - left us with a lack of desire to travel, likely so we'd be home to protect our lands, that the businesses just catered to that with short vacation periods?
I suppose, but why does the typical US company give only 2 weeks vacation, where europe starts at 4+?
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So getting back to GBI. . .
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I suppose, but why does the typical US company give only 2 weeks vacation, where europe starts at 4+?
Because people don't demand 4+.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I suppose, but why does the typical US company give only 2 weeks vacation, where europe starts at 4+?
Because they can?
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Well I can do much more than a day trip and STAY completely in the US. It takes 24hrs of driving for me to get to LA. that's traveling.
Well compared to typical Americans - you're absolutely right. But I don't believe its for lack of cash to do so, it's because culturally, Americans spend their money on things other than traveling.
toss in the fact that almost no American business will allow a person to be gone for more than 2 weeks in a row - renting a house for months like you have is just weird to most Americans.
I bet for the opposite reasons, though. So few Americans push to take long travel, that companies have adjusted to take advantage of the "norm".
that's an interesting take. So the American culture of what - homesteading - left us with a lack of desire to travel, likely so we'd be home to protect our lands, that the businesses just catered to that with short vacation periods?
Most of America was originally founded by people who were either looking for ways to run fringe religious groups that were of questionable legality in civilized countries and/or just looking to "get away from people." So there is a strong foundation of the American genetic background to be self selected loaners and anti-social people. That genetic background engenders teaching that behaviour to children. Over time, it becomes cultural.
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@coliver said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
I suppose, but why does the typical US company give only 2 weeks vacation, where europe starts at 4+?
Because they can?
Yup, a culture of "fewer protections". They use terms like "socialism" to make European protections sound bad. They treat the term, but not the concept, of "capitalism" as a religious devotion rather than rational economics and use it to get people to conform. The American religious foundation of "cults above all else" plays out well in how American workers are still manipulated by big business.
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@Dashrender I think this is a good point. Americans consider this traveling because it can be a really long way. Getting to just about any part of Europe, if you already live there, is trivial distance wise compared to us here.
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@jmoore said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@Dashrender I think this is a good point. Americans consider this traveling because it can be a really long way. Getting to just about any part of Europe, if you already live there, is trivial distance wise compared to us here.
Not really. Getting from like London to Moscow is a really long way, with loads of crazy borders to cross, and physical barriers. Getting "around Europe" only seems easy when you are thinking of it in terms of going to different countries. If you think of Europe countries like states, then it is ridiculously hard.
Sure if you look solely at the Germany, French, Dutch, Belgian, Luxembourg nexus where all those countries meet at one place, it seems easy... just like how PA, DE, NJ, NY, CT, and MA all come together around the lower Hudson. But if you look at getting between normal places in Europe, like Madrid to Warsaw, it's just as or more difficult than getting between US cities.
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Europe has "lots of cool stuff" in a really small space. But if you compare Africa or South America, you get the opposite effect... even more distance between "things", and way more difficulty traversing the distances compared to the US. Focusing on Europe gives a very, very false view of the world in general. Europe is the most extreme "lots of cool stuff in a small space" on the planet, and even there it shows that we have to work hard to make it seem so easy to get from thing to thing.
But if you take the average, rather than the extreme, it paints a completely different picture.
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@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Europe has "lots of cool stuff" in a really small space. But if you compare Africa or South America, you get the opposite effect... even more distance between "things", and way more difficulty traversing the distances compared to the US. Focusing on Europe gives a very, very false view of the world in general. Europe is the most extreme "lots of cool stuff in a small space" on the planet, and even there it shows that we have to work hard to make it seem so easy to get from thing to thing.
But if you take the average, rather than the extreme, it paints a completely different picture.
I'm guessing that citizens of Africa and S America "Scott travel" even less than Americans though.
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@Dashrender said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
@scottalanmiller said in Moving to Guaranteed Basic Income:
Europe has "lots of cool stuff" in a really small space. But if you compare Africa or South America, you get the opposite effect... even more distance between "things", and way more difficulty traversing the distances compared to the US. Focusing on Europe gives a very, very false view of the world in general. Europe is the most extreme "lots of cool stuff in a small space" on the planet, and even there it shows that we have to work hard to make it seem so easy to get from thing to thing.
But if you take the average, rather than the extreme, it paints a completely different picture.
I'm guessing that citizens of Africa and S America "Scott travel" even less than Americans though.
I like when you define "normal things" as "Scott stuff". It's like saying I'm the gold standard for common sense and normal usage.
Those places are known to travel more than Americans that are affluent enough to do so. When you remove poverty as the barrier, their globalization almost always beats ours.
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For example, New Zealand does international travel 250% more than the US does, while earning less!
Canada does 500% more, while earning less (and often having further to go.)
Australia does 100% more, while earning less (and like New Zealand, having no driving borders!)
All three of those are more physically isolated than the US.
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@Dashrender outbound trip means leaving the country.
