With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse
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@JaredBusch my point was that it is weird that Scott has 1) never tried and 2) has never had anyone who has asked about it.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@FATeknollogee said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
And in theory, but only a theory as I've not done this to prove it, you can use Cockpit for multiple hosts, not just one.
Yes indeed you can.
I've seen pictures of it, but never figured out how they set it up to do it.
That would be a weird limitation. You mean I have 15 KVM servers all with their own workloads, and I need to open 15 tabs to manage each host and the guests they have?!
No, you can do it all through one. Most of our customers, being in the SMB, only have one server, so they aren't all in one system. It wouldn't be normal to combine lots of clients into one system. No one with Hyper-V or VMware would do that either, it would be weird. You would treat each customer individually.
In the SMB, single servers is the norm by far today. So that's how it is normally done. For shops with more than one server, often they've not done a large refresh, so you aren't seeing loads of multi-KVM deployments out there yet.
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Based on my past findings, if you purchased an Essentials license (this is all I have ever purchased) you do not lose any functions after support expiration. vCenter even keeps working to my knowledge. You no long have software updates and if you want to re-up they will charge a re-up fee along with support fee.
As for retail pricing, Essentials is $666 for first three years of software upgrades and $180 for three year software upgrades. A licensee can pay per hour for support if needed.
To me, being in SMB, $850 for 6 years is reasonable. Many of these same clients have no issue paying for Sonicwalls, Fortinet and Watchguard UTM's either and we have had many discussions on the cost of those.
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@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
Based on my past findings, if you purchased an Essentials license (this is all I have ever purchased) you do not lose any functions after support expiration. vCenter even keeps working to my knowledge. You no long have software updates and if you want to re-up they will charge a re-up fee along with support fee.
So this part here seems insane, meaning I can't fix security vulnerabilities or bugs ever.
As for retail pricing, Essentials is $666 for first three years of software upgrades and $180 for three year software upgrades. A licensee can pay per hour for support if needed.
To me, being in SMB, $850 for 6 years is reasonable. Many of these same clients have no issue paying for Sonicwalls, Fortinet and Watchguard UTM's either and we have had many discussions on the cost of those.
The price isn't unrealistic in any sense that I can come too, but I'm asking to have the conversation. Which, failing to remain supported, creates some major security concerns.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
Based on my past findings, if you purchased an Essentials license (this is all I have ever purchased) you do not lose any functions after support expiration. vCenter even keeps working to my knowledge. You no long have software updates and if you want to re-up they will charge a re-up fee along with support fee.
So this part here seems insane, meaning I can't fix security vulnerabilities or bugs ever.
AFAIK, correct. That is how they get you to keep support. I believe you can go down to the free version and then lose the backup API's and vCenter.
Which, failing to remain supported, creates some major security concerns.
That it does, unless you go down to limited features and no backup api's. -
@pmoncho removing features may not be an option that can be considered depending on how ESXi is used. So there really is no good answer here. You're forced to pay continuously.
Essentially extorted to pay for functionality and security.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho removing features may not be an option that can be considered depending on how ESXi is used. So there really is no good answer here. You're forced to pay continuously.
Essentially extorted to pay for functionality and security.
Actually, extorted to pay for security as the functions stick with the expired license. Mind you, I have only run into this situation once about 4 years ago. It may have changed since then.
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Although, as we see many from many other software companies, VMware is not alone in this type of licensing.
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@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
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Granted it may only be $60/year but that is still an added expense when there are alternative options that have no such expense.
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Add on top of that, that there could be software restrictions in place as well, limiting what you can do with your hypervisor(s). It adds things into the "Cons" column.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase. -
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.
Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.
It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.
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@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.
Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.
It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.
. . . Yeah and ESXi also goes EoL. That isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing get security updates for the life of the product.
ffs. . . now I need coffee thanks for raising my blood pressure. You Jared wanna-be.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.
Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.
It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.
. . . Yeah and ESXi also goes EoL. That isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing get security updates for the life of the product.
ffs. . . now I need coffee thanks for raising my blood pressure. You Jared wanna-be.
Don't get upset with me for VMware's Terms of Service. I didn't create them.
BTW, Jared is in a league of his own.
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@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.
Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.
It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.
. . . Yeah and ESXi also goes EoL. That isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing get security updates for the life of the product.
ffs. . . now I need coffee thanks for raising my blood pressure. You Jared wanna-be.
Don't get upset with me for VMware's Terms of Service. I didn't create them.
Everything goes EoL at some point, so there is no logical reason to think that anyone or any platform would provide security and bug fixes forever. It's why new releases are made "regularly".
Bringing up that "each version of Hyper-V will go EoL" is like bringing up that "everyone on the planet will die eventually" It's a known truth that, while obvious serves no purpose to the conversation.
Bringing it into the conversation does nothing but irritate the people having the conversation because there is no rational to bringing it up in the first place.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I believe that is why software updates is only $60 per year. That is dirt cheap considering it is ESXi.
Dirt cheap would be $0/year forever like with XCP-ng and KVM.
True dat!
But VMWare isn't opensource and we knew that before the purchase.Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever. Open source isn't really a factor there.
Actually, each version of Hyper-V will go EOL and not have security updates forever. So there will come a time you need to upgrade and that will require a current license.
It all comes down to pay to play or leave. Sucks but it is reality.
. . . Yeah and ESXi also goes EoL. That isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing get security updates for the life of the product.
ffs. . . now I need coffee thanks for raising my blood pressure. You Jared wanna-be.
Don't get upset with me for VMware's Terms of Service. I didn't create them.
Everything goes EoL at some point, so there is no logical reason to think that anyone or any platform would provide security and bug fixes forever. It's why new releases are made "regularly".
Bringing up that "each version of Hyper-V will go EoL" is like bringing up that "everyone on the planet will die eventually" It's a known truth that, while obvious serves no purpose to the conversation.
Bringing it into the conversation does nothing but irritate the people having the conversation because there is no rational to bringing it up in the first place.
Ok, I wasn't gonna point this out as I never try to intentionally upset anyone, but now I am gonna be a jerk. You want F'ing semantics,
You said the following:
Hyper-V isn't open source, but has updates for free, forever.
Not true in even the slightest. It does allow you to upgrade. No mention in this thread (as far as I have seen, might have missed it) you understood that you would paying up at EOL without support contract.
Take whatever statement, however you want. I had no intention of upsetting you or anyone else.
At the end of the day, VMware and many other companies do not continue software/security updates after support expiration. RTF EULA and you will have no issue or reason to be upset.
Hopefully the coffee helped and maybe this will too. "If you are distressed by anything external,the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at anytime." --Marcus Aurelius
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@pmoncho free forever for the life of the product should always be assumed when having a conversation on a technical forum. Never would I, nor anyone else reasonable assume that any hardware or software product will last "forever" past the death of the sun and beyond.
Let's get real here, you were playing semantics to upset the conversation or honestly believe that these products will and do last "forever".
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho free forever for the life of the product should always be assumed when having a conversation on a technical forum. Never would I, nor anyone else reasonable assume that any hardware or software product will last "forever" past the death of the sun and beyond.
Let's get real here, you were playing semantics to upset the conversation or honestly believe that these products will and do last "forever".
No. I just made a statement and nothing more. You blew it the heck out of proportion because you thought I was being a jerk (which was not my intention). If it was out of bounds by your estimate. Fine. That's ok and I will retract it. Don't get all upset about it like I was intentionally trying to piss you off.
If there is one thing I have learned, in this thread and every other thread on this board, ASSUME NOTHING! Look at the pissyness it created. All for naught.
Now, just smile, realize that no matter what, if we both want VMWare we have to pay. I agree with you 10000% that it SUCKS. Were on the same side here.
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@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho free forever for the life of the product should always be assumed when having a conversation on a technical forum. Never would I, nor anyone else reasonable assume that any hardware or software product will last "forever" past the death of the sun and beyond.
Let's get real here, you were playing semantics to upset the conversation or honestly believe that these products will and do last "forever".
No. I just made a statement and nothing more. You blew it the heck out of proportion because you thought I was being a jerk (which was not my intention). If it was out of bounds by your estimate. Fine. That's ok and I will retract it. Don't get all upset about it like I was intentionally trying to piss you off.
If there is one thing I have learned, in this thread and every other thread on this board, ASSUME NOTHING! Look at the pissyness it created. All for naught.
Now, just smile, realize that no matter what, if we both want VMWare we have to pay. I agree with you 10000% that it SUCKS. Were on the same side here.
I'll accept that as an apology.
