Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This
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@StorageNinja Ahh I see your points and I admit they make sense. I guess the whole nature of recruiting and how they get paid is why they don't care.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- If the learned enough technology they would stop being a recruiter and get paid more doing Technology (I know one recruiter who did this).
That's why they don't learn the tech, but learning enough tech to be able to do the job seems like a logical level.
Plus I know recruiters who make way more than normal IT. But those know the tech, too.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- There are a LOT of industries where you don't have to know how to BUILD xxx to identify people who are good at it.
- Real Estate agents and Building Inspectors don't know every facet of building a building.
- Venture Capital (Don't know how to run every facet of a company but they know how to assemble a team).
Yes, BUT...
- IT isn't one of those, at all. It's about as opposite of that as you can get.
- Real Estate agents need tons of knowledge, training, and certification around those things before doing their jobs.
- VCs know about their business. That's not like recruiting.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Niche forums are better...
- If I'm hiring for a VMware expert I'm going to look at the VMware community forums first. If I'm hiring for REDIS I"m going to hire in forums that focus on REDIS.
This is true if you only want niche workers.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- Recruiters are going to target communities where higher pay individuals hang out.
That doesn't really make sense. Most recruiters strive for lower paid people, because they can move them faster and more often. Cheaper people make more money for recruiters, that's why recruiters often don't fight too hard for higher salaries and almost always try to talk IT folks into lower pay... because they are competing against other recruiters and need to be cheap.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Of the top 20, only one calls Texas home in any way, and isn't there the majority of the time. The first full time Texan in the list is the 25th busiest poster.
I live in Texas the minimum number of days to claim it for tax reasons (although I'm not sure I make the top 25). He says from Portugal at the end of 6 weeks on the road
You are #60
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- Another general trend is for larger technical focused companies (who have the better jobs) to refuse to work with outside recruiters. This is a secular threat to the business model. My employer REFUSES to work with outside recruiters.
Same here, our inside recruiters use... this forum for example
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- There are a LOT of industries where you don't have to know how to BUILD xxx to identify people who are good at it.
- Real Estate agents and Building Inspectors don't know every facet of building a building.
- Venture Capital (Don't know how to run every facet of a company but they know how to assemble a team).
Yes, BUT...
- IT isn't one of those, at all. It's about as opposite of that as you can get.
- Real Estate agents need tons of knowledge, training, and certification around those things before doing their jobs.
- VCs know about their business. That's not like recruiting.
- Agree to disagree...
- I could become a real estate agent in a week. Let's not pretend the test is hard.
- VC and Angel investors best value isn't the cash they bring to the founders, it's the people they bring to fill in the gaps. The relationships and talent. Do you need a head of sales or HR or marketing for the next billion dollars unicorn? As a founder, I"m going to talk to my VC. At the carnival level of this, you see this on SharkTank where you see someone pick Cuban on what is on paper a worse offer because they think he has the right connections to get them where they need to go.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
If the learned enough technology they would stop being a recruiter and get paid more doing Technology (I know one recruiter who did this).
That's why they don't learn the tech, but learning enough tech to be able to do the job seems like a logical level.
Plus I know recruiters who make way more than normal IT. But those know the tech, too.You know what we call someone who knows enough IT, has good organizational and communication skills. An IT manager (or possibly a Project Manager). While it's true the high end (headhunters) can make bank, the majority of having this overlap I assume would leave before they get there.
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@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
I talk to a lot of people about changing jobs (My company pays decent money for referrals!) and I see more than I expected of the following...
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I don't want to travel for work.
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I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
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I'm unwilling to spend any time/money on acquiring any skills that would increase my value to employers above its current one.
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I'm strangely loyal to a company that doesn't pay me enough.
Currently survey's show a LOWER demand for moving than at previous times, so labor that is willing to move can get paid a lot better than before.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
- I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
I found that when I was looking at a 40% increase in wages, it also coincided with a 75% to 150% rise in living expenses. Even id10ts can do that sort of math.
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@travisdh1 said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
- I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
I found that when I was looking at a 40% increase in wages, it also coincided with a 75% to 150% rise in living expenses. Even id10ts can do that sort of math.
The fun game is there ARE jobs listed in Silicon Valley that "for the right candidate they would take remote". That's how I found mine. They generally don't mention the last part.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@travisdh1 said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
- I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
I found that when I was looking at a 40% increase in wages, it also coincided with a 75% to 150% rise in living expenses. Even id10ts can do that sort of math.
The fun game is there ARE jobs listed in Silicon Valley that "for the right candidate they would take remote". That's how I found mine. They generally don't mention the last part.
Nearly any good company will offer remote for the right candidate. It would be a hella reckless company that didn't.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- I could become a real estate agent in a week. Let's not pretend the test is hard.
A week of study is WAY more than you get in IT recruiting most of the time. WAY more. And you can't in Texas, I've looked into it. They do things to make sure that it takes a while. And you have to work under a broker for years, so you are under someone with way more training at all times.
My wife was a real estate agent and my roommate is, and it's a lot more work that it seems. Nothing like it takes to work in IT, but also nothing like as little as it takes to be a recruiter.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
- VC and Angel investors best value isn't the cash they bring to the founders, it's the people they bring to fill in the gaps. The relationships and talent. Do you need a head of sales or HR or marketing for the next billion dollars unicorn? As a founder, I"m going to talk to my VC. At the carnival level of this, you see this on SharkTank where you see someone pick Cuban on what is on paper a worse offer because they think he has the right connections to get them where they need to go.
Exactly, and they have to know their business and their people to do that stuff. In theory, recruiters should be similar - their value is bringing the right people to the right tables. But they rarely do.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
If the learned enough technology they would stop being a recruiter and get paid more doing Technology (I know one recruiter who did this).
That's why they don't learn the tech, but learning enough tech to be able to do the job seems like a logical level.
Plus I know recruiters who make way more than normal IT. But those know the tech, too.You know what we call someone who knows enough IT, has good organizational and communication skills. An IT manager (or possibly a Project Manager).
Yes, they become "buyers" of IT, the people who use recruiters to get them the actual IT people.
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@StorageNinja said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@jmoore said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@Carnival-Boy I understand your point of view. However I will say that myself and probably others would change jobs if the pay and other conditions were right.
I talk to a lot of people about changing jobs (My company pays decent money for referrals!) and I see more than I expected of the following...
-
I don't want to travel for work.
-
I'm stuck in xxx market for yyy reason. Despite TONS of jobs that would pay 40% more, I can't or am unwilling to work around it. On one side It's "My spouse doesn't want to leave her family". On the other, it's "I have a divorce and would effectively lose custody of my child". Some are stronger than others but they are at the end of the day a personal choice.
-
I'm unwilling to spend any time/money on acquiring any skills that would increase my value to employers above its current one.
-
I'm strangely loyal to a company that doesn't pay me enough.
Currently survey's show a LOWER demand for moving than at previous times, so labor that is willing to move can get paid a lot better than before.
Willingness to move is one of the top factors in job mobility.
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There's too much discussion and analysis of recruiters and job postings here. It would be like a naturopath practitioner trying to find clients on a forum dedicated to debunking homeopathy. Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
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@flaxking said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Only the naturopath who actually qualified enough to be a real doctor would stand a chance.
A real doctor wouldn't believe in the banging-on-wood-like-cures-like-nonsense of homeopathy, but I imagine plenty of recruiters are just as full of crap as someone selling
nothing but pure water maybe with lavender in ithomeopathic "medicine", and do just as much research. Many years ago I had signed up with some service that was a placement service and a recruiter, and I told them repeatedly I did not know or want to know how to write programs in Pascal, yet they repeatedly called and told me they had a new job for me... in Pascal, COBOL, Assembly. I was never offered a job in any language I knew/was proficient in except once and when I interviewed they told me that they just "claimed [they] were looking for C++ programmers so that more people would show up for [their] PL/I interviews." That stupid company was AOL and they hired me anyway.Maybe that logic extends to recruiters, they think if they just place someone who is expert in... Juniper or whatever in a Cisco oriented job then it'll magically work out, they don't know how ugly pine trees can possibly be used for networks anyway.*
*Because they don't realise Juniper is a networking company not plant
