Phone system
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@dustinb3403 ok thanks, that makes sense. I asked the person doing the demo and she did not know about the software. I'll give my recommendation to host since that will be a little cheaper. My school is still going around with this /sigh. Thanks for your input Dustin
If you need a local area supplier....
Scott - who's doing your phone (VOIP like FreePBX) support these days?
What do you mean, we are. We are a phone vendor.
I mean who specifically? Mike was handling that for a while - and well, we've already talked about that.
Well, me for one.
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@jmoore said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller Just to be clear she is looking for the whole package. Including some sort of hosting, phones, call manager, various other features, and a mobile app for byod. That is what we are looking at.
I think she needs to talk to someone who is advising on phones, not just selling bundles. That approach is a guarantee that you can't get a good deal. Only high cost, big sales guy products come that way. Good products, industry standard ones, don't work like that. Imagine buying a server and wanting "all applications, desktops, and phones" to be bundled with your server purchased. Sounds crazy, right? That's identical here. The PBX is the server, the apps, phones, etc. are things that should never be "bundled", you just get the ones that are right for you and are free to use others when you want.
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@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller Well we are getting demos of phone .... mobile apps.
You only need demos of those things for systems that are proprietary and don't let you choose what you want. Nothing wrong with a demo or features, but "use anything you want" is the best demo. Basically, the demos you are seeing are demonstrations of limitations, not of features. For open systems, there isn't really anything like that to demo in the first place.
99% of SMB don't want this. They want a solution. great it's open - now - what should I use to get mobile access? They expect an answer - not, anything you want. they don't/won't want to research the options - tell them two or three if you like, demo them for them, and let them choose, then never speak of it again, until they complain about something.
This is the world I have lived in. -
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@dashrender Her term for the management side of things. Such as setting up groups, looking at logs, paying the bill, switchboard, and things like that.
None of that is needed. If you have that, you aren't in the ballpark of what I was proposing. That's actually getting way less, rather than more. Because she has to be the phone manager rather than getting a fully hosted service that takes care of that.
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller Well we are getting demos of phone .... mobile apps.
You only need demos of those things for systems that are proprietary and don't let you choose what you want. Nothing wrong with a demo or features, but "use anything you want" is the best demo. Basically, the demos you are seeing are demonstrations of limitations, not of features. For open systems, there isn't really anything like that to demo in the first place.
99% of SMB don't want this. They want a solution. great it's open - now - what should I use to get mobile access? They expect an answer - not, anything you want.
I don't believe that. I think they just buy that because they turn to sales people willing to gouge them and they don't bother actually doing some basic research to see how phones work. I think 99% of SMBs would avoid this if they understood what they were buying.
They don't ACTUALLY want to get ripped off, they just don't want to "think about it" and get ripped off as a byproduct. There is a difference between wanting to be lazy and hoping that you can be lazy AND get a good deal. It's not realistic, but desiring to be lazy doesn't actually mean that they want a bad deal.
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
This is the world I have lived in.
I don't know where you find people like that in the real world. People I talk to, when the value of doing things well is explained, essentially always choose money in their pockets and easier time over getting a bad deal and doing extra work.
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@jmoore said in Phone system:
@dashrender Ok cool thanks. So it really just depends on the requirements and a lot of ways to go about it. I have so much to learn lol.
Right, you can't just get demos and think you are seeing what's out there for phones. The range of what is available is SO huge. Compare RingCentral to a 3CX system, to an NTG system... they are nothing alike, at all. They all make calls, they all are phones, but you interface and use them in three completely different ways. As different as can be.
RC you have to know what you are doing, pay a premium, live with their one way to work, and manage all setup yourself. 3CX you have to install, host, manage, but have flexibility. NTG you just say "we want phones" and everything is done for you, everything. You don't mess with phones, you don't set up lines, you don't need to be an expert and learn how to manage anything. Totally different approaches.
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@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller Well we are getting demos of phone .... mobile apps.
You only need demos of those things for systems that are proprietary and don't let you choose what you want. Nothing wrong with a demo or features, but "use anything you want" is the best demo. Basically, the demos you are seeing are demonstrations of limitations, not of features. For open systems, there isn't really anything like that to demo in the first place.
99% of SMB don't want this. They want a solution. great it's open - now - what should I use to get mobile access? They expect an answer - not, anything you want.
I don't believe that. I think they just buy that because they turn to sales people willing to gouge them and they don't bother actually doing some basic research to see how phones work. I think 99% of SMBs would avoid this if they understood what they were buying.
They don't ACTUALLY want to get ripped off, they just don't want to "think about it" and get ripped off as a byproduct. There is a difference between wanting to be lazy and hoping that you can be lazy AND get a good deal. It's not realistic, but desiring to be lazy doesn't actually mean that they want a bad deal.
It would be awesome for you to keep stats on that for your next 100 new engagements to see what happens - are they willing to research themselves, or do they just ask you to present options.
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@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@dashrender Her term for the management side of things. Such as setting up groups, looking at logs, paying the bill, switchboard, and things like that.
None of that is needed. If you have that, you aren't in the ballpark of what I was proposing. That's actually getting way less, rather than more. Because she has to be the phone manager rather than getting a fully hosted service that takes care of that.
So you're basically proposing RingCentral's solution ? and if not, what's the difference?
And don't just say, you get to pick any phone you want to use. -
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
NTG you just say "we want phones" and everything is done for you, everything. You don't mess with phones, you don't set up lines, you don't need to be an expert and learn how to manage anything. Totally different approaches.
This makes it SOUND like the most expensive option, because 100% of the work is done for you.
Notice I said sound.. perhaps NTG won't have such overhead (not the correct word) so they can pass along the savings and even though they do more work, actually cost less.
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller Well we are getting demos of phone .... mobile apps.
You only need demos of those things for systems that are proprietary and don't let you choose what you want. Nothing wrong with a demo or features, but "use anything you want" is the best demo. Basically, the demos you are seeing are demonstrations of limitations, not of features. For open systems, there isn't really anything like that to demo in the first place.
99% of SMB don't want this. They want a solution. great it's open - now - what should I use to get mobile access? They expect an answer - not, anything you want.
I don't believe that. I think they just buy that because they turn to sales people willing to gouge them and they don't bother actually doing some basic research to see how phones work. I think 99% of SMBs would avoid this if they understood what they were buying.
They don't ACTUALLY want to get ripped off, they just don't want to "think about it" and get ripped off as a byproduct. There is a difference between wanting to be lazy and hoping that you can be lazy AND get a good deal. It's not realistic, but desiring to be lazy doesn't actually mean that they want a bad deal.
It would be awesome for you to keep stats on that for your next 100 new engagements to see what happens - are they willing to research themselves, or do they just ask you to present options.
No one EVER wants us to just sell them crap. No one. Once you've engaged real consulting, you are definitely past that point. This simple never comes up.
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@dashrender Her term for the management side of things. Such as setting up groups, looking at logs, paying the bill, switchboard, and things like that.
None of that is needed. If you have that, you aren't in the ballpark of what I was proposing. That's actually getting way less, rather than more. Because she has to be the phone manager rather than getting a fully hosted service that takes care of that.
So you're basically proposing RingCentral's solution ? and if not, what's the difference?
And don't just say, you get to pick any phone you want to use.So from me explaining how we are completely different than RC in every way, you think we are proposing the same?
RC is "do it yourself", completely. They support you if things break, but there is no "support".
NTG PBX is 100% supported, so the polar opposite of RC. You do nothing, literally nothing. Rather than doing it all yourself.
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
Notice I said sound.. perhaps NTG won't have such overhead (not the correct word) so they can pass along the savings and even though they do more work, actually cost less.
RC makes something like 90% profits, doesn't take much willingness to not gouge customers to do a better job and still make plenty of profits.
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@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@dashrender said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller said in Phone system:
@jmoore said in Phone system:
@dashrender Her term for the management side of things. Such as setting up groups, looking at logs, paying the bill, switchboard, and things like that.
None of that is needed. If you have that, you aren't in the ballpark of what I was proposing. That's actually getting way less, rather than more. Because she has to be the phone manager rather than getting a fully hosted service that takes care of that.
So you're basically proposing RingCentral's solution ? and if not, what's the difference?
And don't just say, you get to pick any phone you want to use.So from me explaining how we are completely different than RC in every way, you think we are proposing the same?
RC is "do it yourself", completely. They support you if things break, but there is no "support".
NTG PBX is 100% supported, so the polar opposite of RC. You do nothing, literally nothing. Rather than doing it all yourself.
Well, your explanation came after my question.
I didn't know RC required you, the buyer, to do all the setup. So yeah, You, NTG basically do everything. I think RC will send pre-configured phones, but I'm not positive.
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Nothing wrong with RC, and nothing wrong with high margins, it's just that you can't use a service like that as some kind of basis for "how will they make money." It's like looking at a Bentley and wondering, based on how expensive it is, how Toyota makes money. Totally different business models, but both sell cars.
RC is a good product, but one that requires you to spend a fortune and do quite a bit of work yourself.
As an example, we sold a PBX literally yesterday - it was cheaper for the customer to get a hosted PBX from NTG with more features and flexibility that to pay someone to manage their RingCentral system. That's not that the RC system costs more than the NTG system, it's the part of NTG's system that RC doesn't include was alone more expensive to supply on their own.
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@dashrender said in Phone system:
I didn't know RC required you, the buyer, to do all the setup. So yeah, You, NTG basically do everything. I think RC will send pre-configured phones, but I'm not positive.
I believe that they do, but you pay for that. NTG will do that too, if you want to ship phones to and from us, no big deal.
But even with that, RC doesn't configure your IVRs, ring groups, hunt groups, recordings, night/day, holiday hours, make changes, park calls, etc.
But I know that the customer in question yesterday, needed phones configured because RC didn't do it.
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The interactions, I think, explain the difference...
RC Interaction: "I'd like X changes made to my system!" "RC: Wonderful, here is your log in and an administration document, go learn the system and have fun managing it!"
NTG PBX Interaction: "I'd like X changes made to my system!" "NTG: Wonderful, let me just do that for you..."
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RC is a GREAT product, and I recommend it often for small customers. When you are below a certain size, it's hard to beat. But once you have about ~12 users, it's too expensive to consider.
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@jmoore said in Phone system:
@scottalanmiller Just to be clear she is looking for the whole package. Including some sort of hosting, phones, call manager, various other features, and a mobile app for byod. That is what we are looking at.
Would like to setup a demo for you, ironically this is what are product does. I will post some screenshots. Provisioning, billing, logs, all in one portal.
Another thing that I can’t understand is why Freepbx hasn’t addressed its issues with roaming mobile app access.
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@bigbear said in Phone system:
Another thing that I can’t understand is why Freepbx hasn’t addressed its issues with roaming mobile app access.
Other than Zulu, you mean? Or does Zulu not do what you want? It's not free, so it's lacking something that I want.
