Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Let's assume he dropped 15K on in, do you think he could have hired a programmer to create a from scratch solution on Linux OS with free DB solution for that kind of money?
You can't buy this stuff for ANYWHERE close to $15K.
Bumble Bee servers could be had for $5K in the early 2000's.
A what?
https://www.itjungle.com/2008/08/26/fhs082608-story01/
https://i.imgur.com/FaB9UOc.png
The company I worked for briefly in 2001 sold these for more than just Domino. -
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
The owner not knowing ANYTHING about IT, said - um ok.. and bought it. end of story.
Knowing something about IT is irrelevant. It's knowing anything about BUSINESS that would protect him.
I'm not sure how you know this leap?
assuming he knows nothing - and hires someone to do it, because he knows nothing.... how does he know the hire (be it internal or external) is doing a good job? Who can he hire to audit the first guy/company and know those aren't crappy people too?There is no leap at all. The leap is thinking that a CEO needs technical knowledge to know what an ethical business practice looks like. You don't have to be a cop to know what a holdup is, you don't have to be an accountant to know what taking bribes is, you don't have to be in IT to know what an unethical business deal is. It's all just basic business.
The CEO's job is to hire someone and make sure that they are doing their job. The issue here isn't doing a bad job, it's not doing the job at all.
Honestly it seems like nobody really knows what they are doing -- and not only that, but everyone seems like everyone who thinks they know something, loves to claim that situations/setups/installations/other things are set up incorrectly/improperly by the previous other people.
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@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Let's assume he dropped 15K on in, do you think he could have hired a programmer to create a from scratch solution on Linux OS with free DB solution for that kind of money?
You can't buy this stuff for ANYWHERE close to $15K.
Bumble Bee servers could be had for $5K in the early 2000's.
A what?
https://www.itjungle.com/2008/08/26/fhs082608-story01/
https://i.imgur.com/FaB9UOc.png
The company I worked for briefly in 2001 sold these for more than just Domino.The article says $50K, not $5K. And it never says what this is. Do you have any reference to the actual product somewhere?
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@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
The owner not knowing ANYTHING about IT, said - um ok.. and bought it. end of story.
Knowing something about IT is irrelevant. It's knowing anything about BUSINESS that would protect him.
I'm not sure how you know this leap?
assuming he knows nothing - and hires someone to do it, because he knows nothing.... how does he know the hire (be it internal or external) is doing a good job? Who can he hire to audit the first guy/company and know those aren't crappy people too?There is no leap at all. The leap is thinking that a CEO needs technical knowledge to know what an ethical business practice looks like. You don't have to be a cop to know what a holdup is, you don't have to be an accountant to know what taking bribes is, you don't have to be in IT to know what an unethical business deal is. It's all just basic business.
The CEO's job is to hire someone and make sure that they are doing their job. The issue here isn't doing a bad job, it's not doing the job at all.
Honestly it seems like nobody really knows what they are doing -- and not only that, but everyone seems like everyone who thinks they know something, loves to claim that situations/setups/installations/other things are set up incorrectly/improperly by the previous other people.
Lots of people know what they are doing, but they don't tend to work in the SMB market and those that do, work as consultants because there is no SMB that needs one full time.
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@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
-- and not only that, but everyone seems like everyone who thinks they know something, loves to claim that situations/setups/installations/other things are set up incorrectly/improperly by the previous other people.
Here's the problem that the industry faces - 90% of systems ARE totally garbage. Most companies run on house of cards systems that are super risky and were way too expensive when put in.
What is difficult is that if you are an expert and are brought in to fix things, nearly everything you see will be garbage that needs to be replaced. If you are a yahoo who is just trying to sell gear and make a quick buck, you'll say the same thing.
If we assume that my example of how VARs use a kickback-like mechanism to incentivize heavily unethical behaviour from IT managers is true, then what you see is exactly what is expected.
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Let's assume he dropped 15K on in, do you think he could have hired a programmer to create a from scratch solution on Linux OS with free DB solution for that kind of money?
You can't buy this stuff for ANYWHERE close to $15K.
Bumble Bee servers could be had for $5K in the early 2000's.
A what?
https://www.itjungle.com/2008/08/26/fhs082608-story01/
https://i.imgur.com/FaB9UOc.png
The company I worked for briefly in 2001 sold these for more than just Domino.The article says $50K, not $5K. And it never says what this is. Do you have any reference to the actual product somewhere?
no, I can only tell you what my sales persons told me back in 2001. I wasn't in sales, it was just a conversation - I asked - why are our clients buying these expensive ($20+ AS/400 - iSeries) things for a 5 person shop? Answer: - they are buying $5K Bumblebees. Not that it was a real answer - I knew nothing of that side of things, I was mostly into desktop support at that time, so I let it go.
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@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Let's assume he dropped 15K on in, do you think he could have hired a programmer to create a from scratch solution on Linux OS with free DB solution for that kind of money?
You can't buy this stuff for ANYWHERE close to $15K.
Bumble Bee servers could be had for $5K in the early 2000's.
A what?
https://www.itjungle.com/2008/08/26/fhs082608-story01/
https://i.imgur.com/FaB9UOc.png
The company I worked for briefly in 2001 sold these for more than just Domino.The article says $50K, not $5K. And it never says what this is. Do you have any reference to the actual product somewhere?
no, I can only tell you what my sales persons told me back in 2001. I wasn't in sales, it was just a conversation - I asked - why are our clients buying these expensive ($20+ AS/400 - iSeries) things for a 5 person shop? Answer: - they are buying $5K Bumblebees. Not that it was a real answer - I knew nothing of that side of things, I was mostly into desktop support at that time, so I let it go.
So what we gather from that is is that Bumblebee was something he was selling but that no one knows what it is now (I Googled, I'm getting nothing but that gibberish article or things referencing it) and that it is NOT an AS/400. That's not much to go on.
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
-- and not only that, but everyone seems like everyone who thinks they know something, loves to claim that situations/setups/installations/other things are set up incorrectly/improperly by the previous other people.
Here's the problem that the industry faces - 90% of systems ARE totally garbage. Most companies run on house of cards systems that are super risky and were way too expensive when put in.
What is difficult is that if you are an expert and are brought in to fix things, nearly everything you see will be garbage that needs to be replaced. If you are a yahoo who is just trying to sell gear and make a quick buck, you'll say the same thing.
If we assume that my example of how VARs use a kickback-like mechanism to incentivize heavily unethical behaviour from IT managers is true, then what you see is exactly what is expected.
I'll grant you the kickback "idea" from your post - but really, please try to find a better term. There is to much baggage on kickback that your argument just gets lost.
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
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@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
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@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
-- and not only that, but everyone seems like everyone who thinks they know something, loves to claim that situations/setups/installations/other things are set up incorrectly/improperly by the previous other people.
Here's the problem that the industry faces - 90% of systems ARE totally garbage. Most companies run on house of cards systems that are super risky and were way too expensive when put in.
What is difficult is that if you are an expert and are brought in to fix things, nearly everything you see will be garbage that needs to be replaced. If you are a yahoo who is just trying to sell gear and make a quick buck, you'll say the same thing.
If we assume that my example of how VARs use a kickback-like mechanism to incentivize heavily unethical behaviour from IT managers is true, then what you see is exactly what is expected.
I'll grant you the kickback "idea" from your post - but really, please try to find a better term. There is to much baggage on kickback that your argument just gets lost.
I'm okay with that, and am open to other term ideas.
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Let's assume he dropped 15K on in, do you think he could have hired a programmer to create a from scratch solution on Linux OS with free DB solution for that kind of money?
You can't buy this stuff for ANYWHERE close to $15K.
Bumble Bee servers could be had for $5K in the early 2000's.
A what?
https://www.itjungle.com/2008/08/26/fhs082608-story01/
https://i.imgur.com/FaB9UOc.png
The company I worked for briefly in 2001 sold these for more than just Domino.The article says $50K, not $5K. And it never says what this is. Do you have any reference to the actual product somewhere?
no, I can only tell you what my sales persons told me back in 2001. I wasn't in sales, it was just a conversation - I asked - why are our clients buying these expensive ($20+ AS/400 - iSeries) things for a 5 person shop? Answer: - they are buying $5K Bumblebees. Not that it was a real answer - I knew nothing of that side of things, I was mostly into desktop support at that time, so I let it go.
So what we gather from that is is that Bumblebee was something he was selling but that no one knows what it is now (I Googled, I'm getting nothing but that gibberish article or things referencing it) and that it is NOT an AS/400. That's not much to go on.
The article said the Bumblebee was an AS/400 model with a yellow stripe designed specifically for use with Lotus Domino. that's it. that's what it was.
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
So I just kind of... accept it and do my job??
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@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
So I just kind of... accept it and do my job??
Or have frank conversations with your boss, and hope you won't be fired.
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@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
So I just kind of... accept it and do my job??
Well that depends.
If you like where you work, accept it and move on, yes. The average IT worker will need to find their happy place and be a part of this system.
Or if you don't like where you work enough to be willing to participate in the system, look for another place where you can work. Interview for "top of the IT food chain" positions, explain your concerns to the CEO or owner, heck show them my article. Tell them that you want to be a REAL IT manager and that they need to understand that that means you'll make mistakes, you'll need to bring in paid consultants, and that you won't be using vendors to do your job for you and pretend its you protecting the business. Good jobs exist, good companies exist, good IT people exist. None of them are the average.
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@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
So I just kind of... accept it and do my job??
Or have frank conversations with your boss, and hope you won't be fired.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaA
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@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
So I just kind of... accept it and do my job??
Or have frank conversations with your boss, and hope you won't be fired.
So... do NOT do this. LOL. If you are passionate about this, have the frank conversation with the owner. But be prepared for it to go badly, even an owner might feel embarrassed that they did't see this coming and didn't do THEIR jobs in making sure that they were hiring real IT staff and managers and might fire you to just not have to "feel badly" about it.
But if you are going to talk to someone, make it the person who is getting screwed, not the one doing the screwing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dashrender said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@dave247 said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
@scottalanmiller said in Disaster Recovery as a service companies that support IBM iSeries / AS400 systems?:
Oh. My. Fucking. Balls.
This accurately describes my boss (the company's CIO/CTO).
Fuck.
Don't feel bad, it describes nearly every boss of every company. It's not unique to you in any way.
So I just kind of... accept it and do my job??
Or have frank conversations with your boss, and hope you won't be fired.
So... do NOT do this. LOL. If you are passionate about this, have the frank conversation with the owner. But be prepared for it to go badly, even an owner might feel embarrassed that they did't see this coming and didn't do THEIR jobs in making sure that they were hiring real IT staff and managers and might fire you to just not have to "feel badly" about it.
But if you are going to talk to someone, make it the person who is getting screwed, not the one doing the screwing.
Well I know my CIO is retiring very soon. Me and the other guy will end up doing his job and we wont be the same at all.
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Some important things to keep in perspective...
- The average CEO is incompetent.
- The average business loses money and will go out of business.
- The average business that survives doesn't do well.
- The average IT person is incompetent.
- The average of any position, in any field, is incompetent.
Averages are quirky things. The average is crap. So that "most" companies and IT people are like this, shouldn't really make us upset or worried. No one worried about this stuff is average or looking to be average.
