Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2
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@krisleslie said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
Scott I think many of us have it implanted in our head with spinning rust to continue to use RAID 10 as it felt the most safe and easy to scale
Honestly, I'm still trying to debate if RAID 5 is worth it vs RAID 1 with SSD's in mind. It's an extra cost, what benefit does it bring? I've only had to deal with RAID 5 on my old server, and I nuked it and never looked back, went with RAID 10 on spinning rust.
The question is - why did you nuke the RAID 5? Why did you move to RAID 10 instead of RAID 6? These questions are what can easily lead you to using RAID 5 on SSD instead of RAID 10.
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@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
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@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
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@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
I just wanted to hear it again.
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@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
For the 100th time, yes. I feel like I answer this almost every day.
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@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
At least. I finally published a paper on it six months ago. So saying it much longer than that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
At least. I finally published a paper on it six months ago. So saying it much longer than that.
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
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@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
At least. I finally published a paper on it six months ago. So saying it much longer than that.
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
Yes, when CentOS aged too much and Fedora had gotten so stable that CentOS no longer made sense in the modern market.
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@scottalanmiller said
For the 100th time, yes. I feel like I answer this almost every day.
Yes but if you take me out of the equation, it's probably more in the single digits.
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@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
At least. I finally published a paper on it six months ago. So saying it much longer than that.
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
Yes, when CentOS aged too much and Fedora had gotten so stable that CentOS no longer made sense in the modern market.
What made this happen? Why wouldn't this have always been the case? or why did it change? i.e. why did whoever makes Fedora decide to stop rolling down Fedora changes into CentOS frequently enough to make that the stable/good platform?
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@dashrender said
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
This is the thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around.
Like how we can tell someone that OptionA is the only option out there, and you'd be a moron to go with another option. Then people get behind OptionA, and implement OptionA. Then one day later, it's like yeah only morons use OptionA. OptionB is where it is at.
When can you ever really trust any of the options?
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@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@black3dynamite said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
You start playing with Ubuntu, and the next thing you know you get sucked into thinking two year old LTS releases are acceptable to deploy in production.
Would you say same thing if some uses CentOS since it’s pretty much a LTS compared to using Fedora?
Yes, but there is less confusion around it due to the greater education and professional nature of the community. But it is exactly the same and why I've been talking so heavily about why it is time to abandon both.
So you are now saying abandon CentOS as well?
He's been saying that for 6 months.
At least. I finally published a paper on it six months ago. So saying it much longer than that.
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
Yes, when CentOS aged too much and Fedora had gotten so stable that CentOS no longer made sense in the modern market.
What made this happen? Why wouldn't this have always been the case? or why did it change? i.e. why did whoever makes Fedora decide to stop rolling down Fedora changes into CentOS frequently enough to make that the stable/good platform?
Becaue the market has changed. The need for applications and application frameworks to be kept up to date has far outstripped the needs of the OS to be kept up to date. The world has moved on and being up to date is vastly more important than it used to be as the application dependencies have moved way up the stack. The LTS model doesn't hold up any more which is why Windows has abandoned it, too.
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@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
This is the thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around.
Like how we can tell someone that OptionA is the only option out there, and you'd be a moron to go with another option. Then people get behind OptionA, and implement OptionA. Then one day later, it's like yeah only morons use OptionA. OptionB is where it is at.
When can you ever really trust any of the options?
Technology changes. Welcome to the world we live in.
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@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
This is the thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around.
Like how we can tell someone that OptionA is the only option out there, and you'd be a moron to go with another option. Then people get behind OptionA, and implement OptionA. Then one day later, it's like yeah only morons use OptionA. OptionB is where it is at.
When can you ever really trust any of the options?
Because times change. IT, and business, and the world, are not static. You can't just research one rule of thumb, figure out that it makes sense right now, then never change that decision ever assuming that the entire world is static and never changes.
This is why RAID 1 + RAID 5 was generally sensible in 1997 and was insane by 2009. The factors behind the decision have changed.
CentOS isn't what it was ten years ago. Fedora is not what it was ten years ago. The things that run on top of them are nto the same as they were. How we manage servers has changed. Virtualization is now ubiquitious. Now we have DevOps tool sets, etc.
The real question is, how has so much changed and yet it seems surprising that the results of a question around good starting points has changed?
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@coliver said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@dashrender said
Well, at some point in mostly recent memory you were all about CentOS, CentOS, CentOS, all about CentOS.
Then at some point you changed to Fedora.
This is the thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around.
Like how we can tell someone that OptionA is the only option out there, and you'd be a moron to go with another option. Then people get behind OptionA, and implement OptionA. Then one day later, it's like yeah only morons use OptionA. OptionB is where it is at.
When can you ever really trust any of the options?
Technology changes. Welcome to the world we live in.
So does business. Businesses need to adapt more quickly now, too. The ability to compete requires more agility than it used to.
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@scottalanmiller said
This is why RAID 1 + RAID 5 was generally sensible in 1997 and was insane by 2009. The factors behind the decision have changed.
Right but that is 12 years, not 12 hours.
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@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said
This is why RAID 1 + RAID 5 was generally sensible in 1997 and was insane by 2009. The factors behind the decision have changed.
Right but that is 12 years, not 12 hours.
Well, Scott did only change to Fedora within the past two years (I think really the past year). For many years before that he was preaching CentOS.
Now of course, at some point he switch, and there would be the 12 hours.. but at least he's been on Fedora for over 6 months for sure, and likely more like a year.
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@brrabill I think the issue we have had in the past was that by the time something changed, the effect of it had to trickle down and that was a big random thing...
By the time something changes now, short of a complete infrastructure having to be done over, people can adapt quicker. i'm still living and dealing with Non Profits that don't have a server, never heard of virtualization, never heard of voip, and the list goes on.
In some cases, it's better for me to get them completely on Google for Non Profits and work on the infrastructure later. The allotments that Google, Microsoft and other tech companies throw at Non-Profits makes it entirely hard NOT to splurge when funds are available.
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@brrabill said in Need to Improve Disk Utilization on XenServer 7.2:
@scottalanmiller said
This is why RAID 1 + RAID 5 was generally sensible in 1997 and was insane by 2009. The factors behind the decision have changed.
Right but that is 12 years, not 12 hours.
But at some point, there was an inflection point. All things change "at some point in time."
