Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM
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@jaredbusch said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said
Hyper-V is not Windows.
Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.
But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.
It is 100% Windows. why the hell would you even think it is not?
It is Microsoft Windows Hyper-V Server 2016.
Now I wonder - does it run on the Windows kernel?
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@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@jaredbusch said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@dustinb3403 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said
Hyper-V is not Windows.
Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.
But it isn't at all Windows. It literally shares nothing in common with Windows, besides the developer.
It is 100% Windows. why the hell would you even think it is not?
It is Microsoft Windows Hyper-V Server 2016.
Now I wonder - does it run on the Windows kernel?
Nope, the kernel is Hyper-V
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@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said
Hyper-V is not Windows.
Managed with Windows tools, it sure works/runs just like it.
As with many things in the Windows world, "looks like" isn't the same as "is". Ubuntu looks like Linux, but is Windows on Windows.
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@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.
Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.
Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.
golf clap Good man.
I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.
The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.
KVM has more? I'd expect way more, especially as Amazon moves over.
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If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
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@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?
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@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
It's really more back to the basics of not knowing enough Linux.
XS was definitely easy. If you didn't mess with it (our newly coined phrase "the first rule of XS") it was plug and play.
But I'm not sure KVM is going to be like that.
When you install CentOS/Fedora check the box for hypervisor role. Done. You have a KVM box.
Virt-Manager only runs on nix but cli is easy to use. Esp when you can just do
virt-builder fedora-26 -f qcow2and you have a disk with Fedora26 ready to go. Just define the VM and attach that disk and you’re done.
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@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.
Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.
Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.
golf clap Good man.
I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.
The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.
KVM has more? I'd expect way more, especially as Amazon moves over.
The amount of warm bodies, not the # of deployments that Xen and now KVM are way more.
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@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?
Of course, that's not an architectural element that could possibly change. That would make it a totally different product altogether.
Remember the simple mantra - Hyper-V is always the same thing, no matter how you install it.
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@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@brrabill said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@travisdh1 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
Yeah. Being an old-time UNIX person I went with KVM. Stick with what you know best when all else is equal, and Hyper-V/KVM are quite close feature wise.
Being a Linux noob, is what is pushing me to Hyper-V.
Though none of my test machines will install it since 2016 requires SLAT. Again, what a pain.
golf clap Good man.
I was tempted to go KVM. But TBH I think the world of support is so much larger for Hyper-V.
The amount of people using it is greater. The quality, well, that's another matter.
KVM has more? I'd expect way more, especially as Amazon moves over.
The amount of warm bodies, not the # of deployments that Xen and now KVM are way more.
Oh okay, yes. Way more "users", not as many "uses."
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@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
This is enormous news. This, more than anything, signals the end of the road for Xen. A very sad day.
Oh man I only just really started using XEN better get that test server racked and KVM installed lol
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@hobbit666 said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
This is enormous news. This, more than anything, signals the end of the road for Xen. A very sad day.
Oh man I only just really started using XEN better get that test server racked and KVM installed lol
Now is the chance to get ahead of the curve rather than behind it
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@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?
You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.
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@storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?
You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.
TBH if you look at really small partitions maybe Hyper-V requires one of the biggest (but not sure about KVM), anyway my hyper-v install is around 26GB. not a big deal .
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Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about <30gb for a hypervisor.
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@tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.
Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.
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@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.
Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.
Yeah it was supposed to be less than, not greater.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?
You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.
TBH if you look at really small partitions maybe Hyper-V requires one of the biggest (but not sure about KVM), anyway my hyper-v install is around 26GB. not a big deal .
Reinstalled in Feb, so there have been some extras added. Plus it was installed with the hypervisor role from the ISO, not minimal and added KVM. So there are a few extras that aren't needed like gluster client, openscap, etc.
But OpenSCAP is helpful on the host because you can scan your VMs directly from the host without the software being in the VM.
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@stacksofplates said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@matteo-nunziati said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@storageninja said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@dashrender said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
If Hyper-V was Windows, it wouldn't need Windows in the Dom0. It's specifically that it isn't that that is required.
Now I'm lost - Hyper-V still has a Dom0 even when installed as pure Hyper-V?
You never question why for a Hyper-V Core required so much damn install space? The Management VM (DOM0) just runs headless.
TBH if you look at really small partitions maybe Hyper-V requires one of the biggest (but not sure about KVM), anyway my hyper-v install is around 26GB. not a big deal .
Reinstalled in Feb, so there have been some extras added. Plus it was installed with the hypervisor role from the ISO, not minimal and added KVM. So there are a few extras that aren't needed like gluster client, openscap, etc.
But OpenSCAP is helpful on the host because you can scan your VMs directly from the host without the software being in the VM.
Group install virtualization doesn’t install they same packages?
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@scottalanmiller said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
@tim_g said in Amazon AWS Leaving Xen for KVM:
Yeah I can't imagine an SMB who cares about >30gb for a hypervisor.
Do you mean <30GB? Because at some point larger than 30GB, everyone cares. What point, I don't know, but at some point, for sure.
It matters from a secondary standpoint of..
- That's a lot of damn code. There are security implications of having that much to keep patched (more patch windows, more attack points).
- If you do PXE/AutoDeploy scenarios it slows down your provisioning/boot time. (Can you even run Hyper-V in a supported, stateless PXE config?)
- Lack of optimizations for embedded installs. It's also a symptom of Hyper-V not being really designed for an embedded install (I know some Nutanix guys tried it but kept burning out SATA DOMs). This is slightly less of a concern with stuff like BOSS modules now an option on 14Gen servers (still that's ~$250 extra per host).
You can get KVM pretty lean, and the ESXi 6.5 ISO weighs in at 324MB (of that the hypervisor is a little less than 1/2 of, the rest being tools images).
