Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017
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@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
Do you REALLY think that this 12 person company is hiring TWO system admins for Windows NT? If we are using "SMBs don't do stuff" let's be reasonable. A 12 person company does not hire two IT people for a single role. Let alone any role.
Having recently watched a SMB try to hire someone and get it all wrong, yeah, I can totally see this getting posted.
Just because it is not meeting your definitions and expectations, does not make it fake.
Could it be certainly.
That it is fake makes it fake. There are two reasonable options here... that the posting is not intended to hire anyone (or only one of two) is one and that they aren't hiring what they say is the other. Both are fake, neither is "my opinion" and between the two they are by far the most likely choice.
Only in Jaredverse would there be a 12 person company legitimately trying to hire two Windows NT system admins for a web design business with HXTML experience.
Do insane, incompetent, but well meaning SMBs exist? Of course. Are they the norm? Heck no.
IT Guy: Boss, I quit. This is my two week notice.
Boss: Can you stay, blah blah.
IT Guy: No, this is too much work for not enough money.
Boss: Ok.
<ring>
CyberCoders Script Monkey: How can we help you?
Boss: I need someone to run our computers.
CyberCoders Script Monkey: Asks inane questions the boss has no idea about.
Boss: Answers inane questions randomly.
CyberCoders Script Monkey: Anything else?
Boss: Make two listings so we can see how cheap we can go with this.
CyberCoders Script Monkey: Done. Thanks.Yup, exactly. Making fake job postings to catfish and see how cheap it could be, if they were to decide to try hiring.
No, they are hiring, but only the cheapest, most desparate person they can find. Fake? No. Created by someone with no cepcept of WTF they were creating? Yes.
Incorrect? Yes. Intentionally Fake (catfishing)? No.
If you create fake job postings to mislead and see how cheaply you can go, that's fake. Let's say they hire someone for the lower job, do you believe that they will still hire the upper one? If not, how is that not 100% fake?
And do you believe that the specs for either are accurate? If not, how is that not fake as well?
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An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
But your description of how they got there - having someone create requirements based on nonsense to test the waters and see what the prices would be like, is totally fake all around.
The world is not your little black and white wonderland Scott. No matter how hard you try to push it, it will not turn into it either.
Can one argue that your points are 100% true in an absolute literal sense? Almost everytime, yes, because we all know that is how you see it.
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@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
By the way, I sent my "how to spot a fake job posting" to them with a note about how there is no way they didn't know this was fake when they sent it to me. They declined to respond. My guess is that if it was real, they'd have wanted to defend themselves given that CyberCoders is large and doesn't want people thinking that they are faking these to collect data.
It was sent out by a bot that is not programmed to see replies.
Eventually some low paid, likely off-shored, schmuck will see it and delete it without reading it because it does not meet valid response criteria.
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@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
But your description of how they got there - having someone create requirements based on nonsense to test the waters and see what the prices would be like, is totally fake all around.
The world is not your little black and white wonderland Scott. No matter how hard you try to push it, it will not turn into it either.
Can one argue that your points are 100% true in an absolute literal sense? Almost everytime, yes, because we all know that is how you see it.
You are trying to come up with ways to make lies true. It's simply not this hard. Do jobs exist? Not likely. Do the jobs listed exist? Even less likely.
The world is not the big grey "nothing is really false" like people want it to be. This is almost certainly catfishing like you described - made up jobs to see what prices are like. Later, based on the collected data, they might consider hiring at some point.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
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@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
By the way, I sent my "how to spot a fake job posting" to them with a note about how there is no way they didn't know this was fake when they sent it to me. They declined to respond. My guess is that if it was real, they'd have wanted to defend themselves given that CyberCoders is large and doesn't want people thinking that they are faking these to collect data.
It was sent out by a bot that is not programmed to see replies.
Eventually some low paid, likely off-shored, schmuck will see it and delete it without reading it because it does not meet valid response criteria.
Doesn't sending out emails as a person asking for a response and turning out to be a bot that black holes that data or collects it to just collect data indicate that this is that much more fake?
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@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
Well if that's true, I see no reason then to believe it's real either.
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It's both legal and even if it was illegal it is impossible to prove (because no one can prove that there was not going to be an intention of hiring - they can always say that they considered it). So while cutting the tag off of our mattress is illegal (I'm kidding) no one comes to audit you to see if you did it. Perfectly safe to do.
No matter how many fake job postings you make, there is no way to prove which ones are fake based off of not getting hired. there is no single person capable of pressing charged for the data collection.
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@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
Well if that's true, I see no reason then to believe it's real either.
It's extremely common and I've caught firms like this admitting to it in arguments when tempers flared and they got emotional and forgot what not to say.
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@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
Well if that's true, I see no reason then to believe it's real either.
It's extremely common and I've caught firms like this admitting to it in arguments when tempers flared and they got emotional and forgot what not to say.
What's the point of doing that? Getting email addresses and phone numbers to sell to spam lists?
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@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
By the way, I sent my "how to spot a fake job posting" to them with a note about how there is no way they didn't know this was fake when they sent it to me. They declined to respond. My guess is that if it was real, they'd have wanted to defend themselves given that CyberCoders is large and doesn't want people thinking that they are faking these to collect data.
It was sent out by a bot that is not programmed to see replies.
Eventually some low paid, likely off-shored, schmuck will see it and delete it without reading it because it does not meet valid response criteria.
Doesn't sending out emails as a person asking for a response and turning out to be a bot that black holes that data or collects it to just collect data indicate that this is that much more fake?
Who said anything about black holing data or collecting just to collect.
I said it was sent by a bot. That does not mean the response is black holed.
I said deleted because it does not contain valid response criteria. That does not mean that it is collecting to collect. It simply means it did not contain a response meeting a typical job seeker and the Script Monkey simply deletes it instead of forwarding it back to the Boss or whatever protocol CyberCoders uses for responses.
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It's the same process, but not as common - but almost, as why bots are used on Tinder and other dating sites. They make personal profiles that are just like these job listings - clearly nonsensical and casually obvious as being so, in the hopes that people either desperate and willing to take any risk or blindly responding to anything and everything will send in some data that they can collect. It's a standard data collection model and the two things, job postings and online dating, are nearly identical in both how and why they do it. Just different pools of data.
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@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
Well if that's true, I see no reason then to believe it's real either.
It's extremely common and I've caught firms like this admitting to it in arguments when tempers flared and they got emotional and forgot what not to say.
What's the point of doing that? Getting email addresses and phone numbers to sell to spam lists?
To see what types of listings get bites in order to more acturately make listings for lower numbers than the companies are hiring for so that the contracting company can get bigger cuts.
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@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
Well if that's true, I see no reason then to believe it's real either.
It's extremely common and I've caught firms like this admitting to it in arguments when tempers flared and they got emotional and forgot what not to say.
What's the point of doing that? Getting email addresses and phone numbers to sell to spam lists?
Yes. Or generating market data. Can be sold to marketing companies to show which people are easily tricked, that's incredibly valuable info. Or, as I've seen on more targeted attacks, doing it to collect potential people today so that firms can use that pool to go after real jobs in the future. That's the most common, I assume, approach.
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@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
By the way, I sent my "how to spot a fake job posting" to them with a note about how there is no way they didn't know this was fake when they sent it to me. They declined to respond. My guess is that if it was real, they'd have wanted to defend themselves given that CyberCoders is large and doesn't want people thinking that they are faking these to collect data.
It was sent out by a bot that is not programmed to see replies.
Eventually some low paid, likely off-shored, schmuck will see it and delete it without reading it because it does not meet valid response criteria.
Doesn't sending out emails as a person asking for a response and turning out to be a bot that black holes that data or collects it to just collect data indicate that this is that much more fake?
Who said anything about black holing data or collecting just to collect.
I said it was sent by a bot. That does not mean the response is black holed.
I said deleted because it does not contain valid response criteria. That does not mean that it is collecting to collect. It simply means it did not contain a response meeting a typical job seeker and the Script Monkey simply deletes it instead of forwarding it back to the Boss or whatever protocol CyberCoders uses for responses.
You said programmed to not see replies. If it doesn't see it, that's black holing.
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@jaredbusch said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@scottalanmiller said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
@tim_g said in Spot the Fake Job Postings, Labor Day 2017:
An actual company wants to fill an actual role. The job posting is real.
What's fake is the title and duties of the job role.
No, we have zero reason to believe that. There is some chance that there is an actually company, some lesser chance that there is an actual role, even less chance that there are two and less still that they are the roles or descriptions listed.
Is it possible that this is real? Sure. Is it reasonable in the real world? Not in the least.
There is essentially zero possibility that both roles even exist.
Is it even legal to post fake jobs to collect personal info?
Yes. Perfectly legal.
Well if that's true, I see no reason then to believe it's real either.
It's extremely common and I've caught firms like this admitting to it in arguments when tempers flared and they got emotional and forgot what not to say.
What's the point of doing that? Getting email addresses and phone numbers to sell to spam lists?
To see what types of listings get bites in order to more acturately make listings for lower numbers than the companies are hiring for so that the contracting company can get bigger cuts.
That's the "business intelligence" side of it. Definitely one of the things that they do. Generate profiles of "what makes people react." It's basically marketing research.
