Really Panda AV?
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
I've never heard of any UNIX system of any sort that forced reboots, ever. That's a feature that only isn't completely insane because of the assumption of the terrible use base that would never reboot if they weren't forced to.
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@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
I've never heard of any UNIX system of any sort that forced reboots, ever. That's a feature that only isn't completely insane because of the assumption of the terrible use base that would never reboot if they weren't forced to.
you will get no disagreement here.
In the past Windows would give notices for 3 days - but wasn't really that in your face about it.. though I think as the third day rolled around, it did start getting more aggressive.
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I know the iPhone isn't a Unix system, but correct me if I'm wrong, I think it forces the upgrade on users after some period of time.
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
I've never heard of any UNIX system of any sort that forced reboots, ever. That's a feature that only isn't completely insane because of the assumption of the terrible use base that would never reboot if they weren't forced to.
you will get no disagreement here.
In the past Windows would give notices for 3 days - but wasn't really that in your face about it.. though I think as the third day rolled around, it did start getting more aggressive.
It's so bad that for travelers, things like using Windows machines at airports can be a problem. No way to shut them down when getting on a plane or when dealing with TSA agents or whatever.
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If you're a traveler, I'm sure this is a lesson you learn after a single issue. Do updates before hand, make sure they are good to go.
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
If you're a traveler, I'm sure this is a lesson you learn after a single issue. Do updates before hand, make sure they are good to go.
You never get to be totally confident with MS, though. It's not simple and easy like Fedora or Ubuntu where you manually run updates and know for sure the state of things. And of course, you don't need to worry about it there because it doesn't have this problem. It never saves the update process for your shutdown procedure, that's insane. You never know that your Windows box is going to shut down reliably. And why does it need to do that anyway? I've never seen another OS with that issue.
On Windows, it is very hard to be sure you've gotten your updates all done and even when you have it's hard to be sure it won't apply something at start up or shut down.
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@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
Yeah, I feel like MS does that as a way to make their customers know how MS sees the OS.
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@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
you don't have a lot of non technical running Unix based things (chromebooks and android phones not included).
Of course it's ridiculous to have servers auto reboot, but desktops, or normals, much less so because normals just won't bother. Now, that said, HELL YES there should be an option to turn that crap off for those who want to manage this themselves. Sadly those who can't be bothered to do that maintenance will also use it to turn updates off and injure the rest of with their malware infected menaces.
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@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
If you're a traveler, I'm sure this is a lesson you learn after a single issue. Do updates before hand, make sure they are good to go.
You never get to be totally confident with MS, though. It's not simple and easy like Fedora or Ubuntu where you manually run updates and know for sure the state of things. And of course, you don't need to worry about it there because it doesn't have this problem. It never saves the update process for your shutdown procedure, that's insane. You never know that your Windows box is going to shut down reliably. And why does it need to do that anyway? I've never seen another OS with that issue.
On Windows, it is very hard to be sure you've gotten your updates all done and even when you have it's hard to be sure it won't apply something at start up or shut down.
What's even more amazing to me I think is the fact that people can randomly remove SINGLE patches without touching dependencies. How can you possibly have an operating system work that way?
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
you don't have a lot of non technical running Unix based things (chromebooks and android phones not included).
Of course it's ridiculous to have servers auto reboot, but desktops, or normals, much less so because normals just won't bother. Now, that said, HELL YES there should be an option to turn that crap off for those who want to manage this themselves. Sadly those who can't be bothered to do that maintenance will also use it to turn updates off and injure the rest of with their malware infected menaces.
Auto-rebooting is often not as bad, for me, as stored updates that it doesn't bother applying UNTIL I try to shutdown.
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@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
you don't have a lot of non technical running Unix based things (chromebooks and android phones not included).
Of course it's ridiculous to have servers auto reboot, but desktops, or normals, much less so because normals just won't bother. Now, that said, HELL YES there should be an option to turn that crap off for those who want to manage this themselves. Sadly those who can't be bothered to do that maintenance will also use it to turn updates off and injure the rest of with their malware infected menaces.
Auto-rebooting is often not as bad, for me, as stored updates that it doesn't bother applying UNTIL I try to shutdown.
As I understand it, only thing that can't be touched while the system is running.
No excuses, just my understanding.For example, MS released 8 MS office updates, no reboot required.
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
you don't have a lot of non technical running Unix based things (chromebooks and android phones not included).
Of course it's ridiculous to have servers auto reboot, but desktops, or normals, much less so because normals just won't bother. Now, that said, HELL YES there should be an option to turn that crap off for those who want to manage this themselves. Sadly those who can't be bothered to do that maintenance will also use it to turn updates off and injure the rest of with their malware infected menaces.
Auto-rebooting is often not as bad, for me, as stored updates that it doesn't bother applying UNTIL I try to shutdown.
As I understand it, only thing that can't be touched while the system is running.
No excuses, just my understanding.For example, MS released 8 MS office updates, no reboot required.
But what could need 10 minutes or more of offline updates - Linux often updates releases with zero offline time like this. What the heck causes such a massive issue?
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@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
you don't have a lot of non technical running Unix based things (chromebooks and android phones not included).
Of course it's ridiculous to have servers auto reboot, but desktops, or normals, much less so because normals just won't bother. Now, that said, HELL YES there should be an option to turn that crap off for those who want to manage this themselves. Sadly those who can't be bothered to do that maintenance will also use it to turn updates off and injure the rest of with their malware infected menaces.
Auto-rebooting is often not as bad, for me, as stored updates that it doesn't bother applying UNTIL I try to shutdown.
As I understand it, only thing that can't be touched while the system is running.
No excuses, just my understanding.For example, MS released 8 MS office updates, no reboot required.
But what could need 10 minutes or more of offline updates - Linux often updates releases with zero offline time like this. What the heck causes such a massive issue?
I have often wondered this myself.
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@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@scottalanmiller said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
@stacksofplates said in Really Panda AV?:
@Dashrender said in Really Panda AV?:
You're kidding right?
Windows does this exact same thing today. Updates install silently in the backgroup and HOPE you'll reboot on your own inside of 3 days. If you don't, I think it auto reboots.
So if windows was in the same situation, you'd be just as stuck.
Assuming 'nix has an autoupdate feature - how are reboots handled what that needs to happen?
It's also possible that 'nix also doesn't need to do processing on the way down in a reboot because of architecture differences.
We don't "have" to reboot, we can live kernel patch. Obviously you still want to reboot, but you aren't forced to. And even before that you weren't forced to because that's ridiculous.
you don't have a lot of non technical running Unix based things (chromebooks and android phones not included).
Of course it's ridiculous to have servers auto reboot, but desktops, or normals, much less so because normals just won't bother. Now, that said, HELL YES there should be an option to turn that crap off for those who want to manage this themselves. Sadly those who can't be bothered to do that maintenance will also use it to turn updates off and injure the rest of with their malware infected menaces.
Auto-rebooting is often not as bad, for me, as stored updates that it doesn't bother applying UNTIL I try to shutdown.
As I understand it, only thing that can't be touched while the system is running.
No excuses, just my understanding.For example, MS released 8 MS office updates, no reboot required.
But what could need 10 minutes or more of offline updates - Linux often updates releases with zero offline time like this. What the heck causes such a massive issue?
I have often wondered this myself.
I can theorize reasons, but they are weird and why does Linux and every other OS not need this.
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@Dashrender Iphone does not force to install iOS updates at all, they just notify you all the time of the update being ready.
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@Dashrender Until patches are released over the traveling time and you are using a cellular connection
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@Dashrender No Windows 10 is using Active Hours (Although it was not honored by the last Tuesday patch, no matter what Windows 10 version 1607 or 1703).
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-restart
You can delay a restart up to 14 days
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I didn't say how long before reboot because I knew they changed it, just didn't recall what it was now.
But you do have to put effort into delaying it, which someone running through the airport will likely miss.
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@Dashrender Yeah, it is a lot of effort... I mean you got to find this stuff and plan it and test it because if not you get lots of complaints...
