When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator
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@Grey said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
This site and the data here is used by HR and government entities, and is considered to be the best site for skills and job descriptions.
Except HR and government entities are specifically known for getting this stuff epically wrong, all the time. The military is widely known as knowing nothing about this.
The list I showed was their list of IT job titles. Those titles must be coming from things that they think are NOT IT.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Grey said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
This site and the data here is used by HR and government entities, and is considered to be the best site for skills and job descriptions.
Except HR and government entities are specifically known for getting this stuff epically wrong, all the time. The military is widely known as knowing nothing about this.
The list I showed was their list of IT job titles. Those titles must be coming from things that they think are NOT IT.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It's really irrelevant what you impose upon how IT titles should be. The reality is that, even if HR departments can't figure out a title or pull their heads from their asses to be more accurate, we [in IT] will still have to deal with being called a Systems Admin, labelled as IT/IS, or even just Mr. Computer Guy/Gal.
Youtube Video -
@Grey said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Excepting the obvious latter half of results, which are the results of splitting the search term, you can clearly see the IT stuff at the top. Clicking on any of those, especially the top, will tell you exactly what's expected.
This site and the data here is used by HR and government entities, and is considered to be the best site for skills and job descriptions.
Here is the top portion before it goes crazy....
The have "Computer and IS Managers" but WTF is that? Managers of IT people, I would assume. Which is why it doesn't have an IT code associated with it (15-11xx.xx).
It's not SO bad, if we trim it by word searches to make it look more reasonable. But why are the two most critical specialists jobs in IT, network admins and system admins, lumped together but web admin it's own specialty? Makes no sense.
If you look at the list I provided, that's their ENTIRE view of the IT field, clearly admin is the one term they got slightly better, but totally lost their way in general.
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@Grey said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
It's really irrelevant what you impose upon how IT titles should be. The reality is that, even if HR departments can't figure out a title or pull their heads from their asses to be more accurate...
Actually that's not true at all. No "real" IT jobs are hired through HR, even the most incompetent IT hiring manager knows that HR can't handle this stuff and doesn't have the knowledge necessary to define the jobs. REALITY is that real IT is hired by IT and they know these titles and that made up HR stuff is how failing companies try to do things and good IT people avoid those jobs and good hiring managers (and good CEOs) never let HR get involved in that way.
Look at those totally made up and useless titles, you don't really see jobs advertising that gibberish. ANd in the rare case that you do, we all mock them and point out that obviously they aren't hiring anyone and the pay is always way below market.
You can say that HR and the military define IT all you want, but they are not the industry and have no relevance to it. HR isn't in the hiring path in good companies and certainly not in functional IT.
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@Grey said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
It's really irrelevant what you impose upon how IT titles should be.
I've never imposed anything, I'm just pointing out how IT hiring works and what the words mean. When you work all over in IT, these are the titles and how they are used broadly and as hiring managers understand them. It's actually the military and HR trying to impose irrelevant, useless, made up titles on an industry that doesn't deal with them. What hiring managers even know about stuff like this and why would they? Knowing that the military makes up jobs that don't exist in the real world does nothing for hiring the people you need.
If the theory that HR uses this was correct, how could you ever staff your IT departments? Half the jobs you need don't exist so you simply can't hire them? And the other half are all wrong and useless. There is a reason that we don't see jobs with these titles, because this isn't how people are hiring.
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Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
Girl: So tell me about yourself
Me: I am no one. -
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
And that's sad because it's natural to become a generalist
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@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
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@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
You mean as a title? Generalist is the only JOB in the SMB. SMB titles are literally gibberish.
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@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
And that's sad because it's natural to become a generalist
Only in places lacking enough people to properly split up roles. Actually quite naturally to specialize.
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@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
And that's sad because it's natural to become a generalist
In the SMB, it's really the only option - as Scott as mentioned and I agree. Sure there are rare times when you can become a specialist, but that's mostly only on the larger side of the SMB market, which by comparison is much smaller an arena
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@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
So I either lie or I market myself poorly. Great.
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@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
So I either lie or I market myself poorly. Great.
Welcome to American employment
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@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
So I either lie or I market myself poorly. Great.
If you read carefully, I didn't say that. And you are making huge assumptions like you will only work for the SMB. Which is true, but only because you force it to be so.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
So I either lie or I market myself poorly. Great.
Welcome to American employment
I'm not going to be a shitty person to make money, so I guess I'm choosing poverty
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@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
So I either lie or I market myself poorly. Great.
Welcome to American employment
I'm not going to be a shitty person to make money, so I guess I'm choosing poverty
You are still assuming that I said you have to lie. But read what I actually wrote.
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@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@wirestyle22 said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@Dashrender said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
@scottalanmiller said in When Is It Okay to Say You Are a System Administrator:
Also notice, according to ASVAB... there is no title, whatsoever, for the ENTIRE SMB IT space. Not a single one.
And really - there probably shouldn't be. As mentioned - though not accepted by Scott - Generalist would not be acceptable to most people hiring in the SMB space, at least with my very limited exposure.
So of course, Scott's right - we should only 'talk' about correct things, and not have discussions around incorrect things - bad practices - but at the same time, knowing your audience and making your resume suit that situation is key.
Right, knowing the truth and knowing how to market are two different things. But you can't market well if you don't know the truth.
Then you have to decide if you are going to market well within the truth, or just lie.
So I either lie or I market myself poorly. Great.
Welcome to American employment
I'm not going to be a shitty person to make money, so I guess I'm choosing poverty
You are still assuming that I said you have to lie. But read what I actually wrote.
I do see it, but telling the truth is making myself non-competitive--not that I even consider it an option to lie.
