Windows 10 volume licensing questions
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
We buy OEM licenses all the time here...being made to buy a random ram stick or a hard drive to get OEM is bizarre.
That's the hardware that the license is bound to. Since OEM is always bound to some piece of hardware.
Nope.
OEM is not bound to any hardware until it is used. Then it is bound to the hardware which 9/10 is the motherboard, not the hard drive or ram sticks.
At least in the US - it couldn't be sold to an end user/end using company unless it was being sold with hardware. that's what makes it OEM. If an end user/company needed a license not tied to hardware, they "had to buy Boxed Product."
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Right....so where do the system builders buy it from?
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There is little law involved here. MS said it was the rule. They may have had signed contracts with large distributors that had the stipulation and that would have had some civil court clout as far as penalties for breaking contract etc. But once it was in the hands of smaller distributors/shops there would have been little reason to adhere to this other than Microsoft's reputation as a bully.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Right....so where do the system builders buy it from?
They aren't the end users - they are the VARs or resellers. Resellers can buy it with no restrictions. But we're talking about - at least I've been working under the assumption that we were talking about buying for personal/company use, via the OP's request to get licenses for their own use.
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@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
There is little law involved here. MS said it was the rule. They may have had signed contracts with large distributors that had the stipulation and that would have had some civil court clout as far as penalties for breaking contract etc. But once it was in the hands of smaller distributors/shops there would have been little reason to adhere to this other than Microsoft's reputation as a bully.
Absolutely - but why would the small shop turn away the sale of even a $5 mouse (that they paid $1 for). At least they got something extra out of you.
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No, I'm talking about the insanity that buying OEMs with HDDs or Ram sticks makes it legal when...it so does not.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Right....so where do the system builders buy it from?
They aren't the end users. This really isn't complicated, at all. MS has a super straightforward contract rule, it's enforceable. You are trying to act incredulous as if we are all crazy, but this is really simple and nothing weird at all. Europe may make this contract requirement unenforceable, but other places do not. You can't apply EU consumer protection assumptions to the rest of the world, no one else has that.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
No, I'm talking about the insanity that buying OEMs with HDDs or Ram sticks makes it legal when...it so does not.
But it does, Microsoft themselves have clearly stated that it does. It's that simple.
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@Dashrender said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
There is little law involved here. MS said it was the rule. They may have had signed contracts with large distributors that had the stipulation and that would have had some civil court clout as far as penalties for breaking contract etc. But once it was in the hands of smaller distributors/shops there would have been little reason to adhere to this other than Microsoft's reputation as a bully.
Absolutely - but why would the small shop turn away the sale of even a $5 mouse (that they paid $1 for). At least they got something extra out of you.
Often they just throw broken stuff in there.
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@scottalanmiller said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@Dashrender said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
There is little law involved here. MS said it was the rule. They may have had signed contracts with large distributors that had the stipulation and that would have had some civil court clout as far as penalties for breaking contract etc. But once it was in the hands of smaller distributors/shops there would have been little reason to adhere to this other than Microsoft's reputation as a bully.
Absolutely - but why would the small shop turn away the sale of even a $5 mouse (that they paid $1 for). At least they got something extra out of you.
Often they just throw broken stuff in there.
I would expect zero add-on prices if that's the case. and I do recall a time or two when I did receive bad RAM, etc to cover this.
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@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
There is little law involved here. MS said it was the rule. They may have had signed contracts with large distributors that had the stipulation and that would have had some civil court clout as far as penalties for breaking contract etc. But once it was in the hands of smaller distributors/shops there would have been little reason to adhere to this other than Microsoft's reputation as a bully.
It's quite a bit of law, actually. It is US contract law that makes the contacts fall under a legal protection. It's US laws that give MS the power to require this.
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Here's a question for @Breffni-Potter
What's the point in the OEM license if you can buy it with zero restrictions compared to the boxed product?
Why would MS have this?
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@Dashrender said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@scottalanmiller said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@Dashrender said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
There is little law involved here. MS said it was the rule. They may have had signed contracts with large distributors that had the stipulation and that would have had some civil court clout as far as penalties for breaking contract etc. But once it was in the hands of smaller distributors/shops there would have been little reason to adhere to this other than Microsoft's reputation as a bully.
Absolutely - but why would the small shop turn away the sale of even a $5 mouse (that they paid $1 for). At least they got something extra out of you.
Often they just throw broken stuff in there.
I would expect zero add-on prices if that's the case. and I do recall a time or two when I did receive bad RAM, etc to cover this.
Right, it is normally free. Or was.
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@Dashrender said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Here's a question for @Breffni-Potter
What's the point in the OEM license if you can buy it with zero restrictions compared to the boxed product?
Why would MS have this?
Exactly, it's Europe that is weird here because they have so much consumer protectionism. They get used to be able to just ignore vendor rules and licensing limits in a way that must make it seem odd that so many rules exist, if they can't be enforced.
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Where does MS say that it is legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows IF you buy a broken stick of Ram with it as well? Stop inventing nonsense about Europe being able to evade US contract law. It's basic knowledge that an OEM edition of Windows is not tied to anything except for the motherboard of the system in which it was supplied. So...how can you buy a faulty ram stick and be "legal" under their OEM agreement?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Where does MS say that it is legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows IF you buy a broken stick of Ram with it as well? Stop inventing nonsense about Europe being able to evade US contract law. It's basic knowledge that an OEM edition of Windows is not tied to anything except for the motherboard of the system in which it was supplied. So...how can you buy a faulty ram stick and be "legal" under their OEM agreement?
Right on the link I provided. Did you not read the article?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Where does MS say that it is legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows IF you buy a broken stick of Ram with it as well? Stop inventing nonsense about Europe being able to evade US contract law. It's basic knowledge that an OEM edition of Windows is not tied to anything except for the motherboard of the system in which it was supplied. So...how can you buy a faulty ram stick and be "legal" under their OEM agreement?
The whole thing was very shaky from the beginning when MS demanded that people only sell the license with hardware. They gave people a bunch of crap about selling licenses with broken stuff. They gave people crap about selling with a singe piece of working hardware. Mostly it was self enforced because MS are scary.
This comes down to they wanted their product supported. They weren't willing to provide the support at the OEM price point. Trying to tie a piece of hardware to the license(MS really wanted a full system here) gave them leverage to make someone else provide the end user support.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Where does MS say that it is legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows IF you buy a broken stick of Ram with it as well? Stop inventing nonsense about Europe being able to evade US contract law. It's basic knowledge that an OEM edition of Windows is not tied to anything except for the motherboard of the system in which it was supplied. So...how can you buy a faulty ram stick and be "legal" under their OEM agreement?
You claim basic knowledge that goes against the OEM sales agreement. if it's not different in the U.K., that's a pretty basic thing to not know.
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@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Where does MS say that it is legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows IF you buy a broken stick of Ram with it as well? Stop inventing nonsense about Europe being able to evade US contract law. It's basic knowledge that an OEM edition of Windows is not tied to anything except for the motherboard of the system in which it was supplied. So...how can you buy a faulty ram stick and be "legal" under their OEM agreement?
The whole thing was very shaky from the beginning when MS demanded that people only sell the license with hardware. They gave people a bunch of crap about selling licenses with broken stuff. They gave people crap about selling with a singe piece of working hardware. Mostly it was self enforced because MS are scary.
This comes down to they wanted their product supported. They weren't willing to provide the support at the OEM price point. Trying to tie a piece of hardware to the license(MS really wanted a full system here) gave them leverage to make someone else provide the end user support.
Bingo. So basically the entire OEM system is designed to absolve MS of support for cheaper licenses, which was the whole point. The onus is on the OEMs to deliver support to the end users.
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@NDC said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
@Breffni-Potter said in Windows 10 volume licensing questions:
Where does MS say that it is legal to buy an OEM copy of Windows IF you buy a broken stick of Ram with it as well? Stop inventing nonsense about Europe being able to evade US contract law. It's basic knowledge that an OEM edition of Windows is not tied to anything except for the motherboard of the system in which it was supplied. So...how can you buy a faulty ram stick and be "legal" under their OEM agreement?
The whole thing was very shaky from the beginning when MS demanded that people only sell the license with hardware. They gave people a bunch of crap about selling licenses with broken stuff. They gave people crap about selling with a singe piece of working hardware. Mostly it was self enforced because MS are scary.
This comes down to they wanted their product supported. They weren't willing to provide the support at the OEM price point. Trying to tie a piece of hardware to the license(MS really wanted a full system here) gave them leverage to make someone else provide the end user support.
And since selling MS software required a license under contract, it is trivial for them to require it. I'm so lost as to how this is confusing. It's been common knowledge, even for bench and prosumers, for a very long time. At least since the XP era.
