Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Nothing, and it is. And they do.
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@coliver said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
It is often considered to be hyperconverged. The only thing that doesn't make it is Vcenter isn't on every node in the system.
That's not a normal feature and almost no one considered that, or even the single pane of glass thing, to be hyperconvergence. It's about the architecture, not the GUI. The platform is hyperconverged.
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Remember that other products like that, like Starwind, on Vmware are considered hyperconverged. That's how Nutanix started as well.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Converged (The predecessor) and hyper converged systems have always included multiple nodes.
VCE (Which really founded the converged systems model) was primarily about converging the install/config and support operations. When you bought a vBlock it came factory pre-cabled in a Rack as a single unit. It solved a LOT of install problems based on people not knowing how to correctly plugin 80 cables if nothing else.
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@John-Nicholson said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Converged (The predecessor) and hyper converged systems have always included multiple nodes.
VCE (Which really founded the converged systems model) was primarily about converging the install/config and support operations. When you bought a vBlock it came factory pre-cabled in a Rack as a single unit. It solved a LOT of install problems based on people not knowing how to correctly plugin 80 cables if nothing else.
The definition was never about multiple nodes. it's just that people only talk about it in that context. Same with HC.
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VCE (or any converged vendor) never offered a solution that leveraged local storage, or included only a single host.
Even looking at other CI stacks (FlexPod etc) no one ever did this and called it converged infrastructure.
Even within the HCI space the top 4-5 players never called it this (Scale doesn't call a single node HCI, VMware doesn't, Simplivity HPE do not, and Nutanix never have).
The analysts (Wikibon, IDC, Gartner) all love splitting hairs (ServerSAN was popular for a while with Wikibon, Gartner refused to consider anything that wasn't an appliance, and IDC stayed pretty neutral) all seem to be in agreement on things now.You (and really anyone) can call anything anything, but at some point you stand alone in calling a poptart a sandwich.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
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@John-Nicholson said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Even within the HCI space the top 4-5 players never called it this (Scale doesn't call a single node HCI, VMware doesn't, Simplivity HPE do not, and Nutanix never have).
Yes, but those are marketing departments, not IT people.
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
Is this unique to scale?
In other words, can you get multi-host HC in Hyper-V without a third party add-on? How about ESXi? I've been under an assumption that you can't. That a third party add-on (if such a thing even exists) would be required to get multi-host HC.
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HD by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I think you got autocorrected a bit here. HD, AJ?
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
Is this unique to scale?
No, I'd be shocked if there is any platform that isn't like this. It's the obvious way that things would work. Essentially you'd always have to go out of your way to block this from working.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HD by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I think you got autocorrected a bit here. HD, AJ?
Fixed
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HC by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I'm still not quite sure what this says. Hyper-V alone doesn't have any ability to scale past one node while remaining converged.
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@coliver said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Hyperconverged to me is bringing disparate interfaces and technologies into one box. Storage, Hypervisor, Management, and Network on a single box managed from a single interface.
This is exactly correct and it's what a lot of vendors (including Microsoft) don't understand.
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
VMware vSphere with tightly coupled vSAN and VMware vCenter with vSAN management seamlessly integrated IS a hyperconverged solution. Lots of HCI vendors will give you FUD telling their own GUI is "single plane of glass management hiding all burdens behind" but reality is - most often their GUI is just a bunch of an open-source junk compiled by some script kiddie and what they try to sell you is actually "single pain in the ass".
P.S. No, I won't give any names. This is tiny industry so you know whom I mean.
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@KOOLER said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
VMware vSphere with tightly coupled vSAN and VMware vCenter with vSAN management seamlessly integrated IS a hyperconverged solution. Lots of HCI vendors will give you FUD telling their own GUI is "single plane of glass management hiding all burdens behind" but reality is - most often their GUI is just a bunch of an open-source junk compiled by some script kiddie and what they try to sell you is actually "single pain in the ass".
P.S. No, I won't give any names. This is tiny industry so you know whom I mean.
I actually don't, because they get discussed around here so little, and I'm not at all sad about it
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HC by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I'm still not quite sure what this says. Hyper-V alone doesn't have any ability to scale past one node while remaining converged.
LOL - I missed that on my phone - voice to text major fail.
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
Is this unique to scale?
In other words, can you get multi-host HC in Hyper-V without a third party add-on? How about ESXi? I've been under an assumption that you can't. That a third party add-on (if such a thing even exists) would be required to get multi-host HC.
There, I think this is better.
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
Is this unique to scale?
In other words, can you get multi-host HC in Hyper-V without a third party add-on? How about ESXi? I've been under an assumption that you can't. That a third party add-on (if such a thing even exists) would be required to get multi-host HC.
There, I think this is better.
Yes, or nearly so at least. Both Hyper-V and ESXi have single vendor HC solutions. Not that single vendor is part of the equation. But if you want HC as a singular product, both offer that.
