Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Hyperconvergence is merging the managing of the platform components into a single node: with hypervisor, storage, networking and management in a single system.
What do you mean by "single system"? Single management platform?
I reworded as that was definitely weird.
lol. Thank you.
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Hyperconvergence is merging of the platform components into a single node: with hypervisor, storage, networking and generally management.
Using this definition though, a Scale cluster isn't hyperconverged. Because it has more than one node.
Nope, the definition doesn't define the number of nodes that you can have, only that all of the pieces are in one node. Scale certainly meets that definition, even their management interface is on every node.
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Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
It is often considered to be hyperconverged. The only thing that doesn't make it is Vcenter isn't on every node in the system.
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Nothing, and it is. And they do.
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@coliver said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
It is often considered to be hyperconverged. The only thing that doesn't make it is Vcenter isn't on every node in the system.
That's not a normal feature and almost no one considered that, or even the single pane of glass thing, to be hyperconvergence. It's about the architecture, not the GUI. The platform is hyperconverged.
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@dafyre said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Merging components into a single node doesn't stop you from scaling horizontally to other nodes. But EACH node must have the stack collapsed onto it. That's the key.
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Remember that other products like that, like Starwind, on Vmware are considered hyperconverged. That's how Nutanix started as well.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Converged (The predecessor) and hyper converged systems have always included multiple nodes.
VCE (Which really founded the converged systems model) was primarily about converging the install/config and support operations. When you bought a vBlock it came factory pre-cabled in a Rack as a single unit. It solved a LOT of install problems based on people not knowing how to correctly plugin 80 cables if nothing else.
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@John-Nicholson said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Then what stops a VMware setup with vSAN from being called hyperconverged?
Converged (The predecessor) and hyper converged systems have always included multiple nodes.
VCE (Which really founded the converged systems model) was primarily about converging the install/config and support operations. When you bought a vBlock it came factory pre-cabled in a Rack as a single unit. It solved a LOT of install problems based on people not knowing how to correctly plugin 80 cables if nothing else.
The definition was never about multiple nodes. it's just that people only talk about it in that context. Same with HC.
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VCE (or any converged vendor) never offered a solution that leveraged local storage, or included only a single host.
Even looking at other CI stacks (FlexPod etc) no one ever did this and called it converged infrastructure.
Even within the HCI space the top 4-5 players never called it this (Scale doesn't call a single node HCI, VMware doesn't, Simplivity HPE do not, and Nutanix never have).
The analysts (Wikibon, IDC, Gartner) all love splitting hairs (ServerSAN was popular for a while with Wikibon, Gartner refused to consider anything that wasn't an appliance, and IDC stayed pretty neutral) all seem to be in agreement on things now.You (and really anyone) can call anything anything, but at some point you stand alone in calling a poptart a sandwich.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
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@John-Nicholson said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Even within the HCI space the top 4-5 players never called it this (Scale doesn't call a single node HCI, VMware doesn't, Simplivity HPE do not, and Nutanix never have).
Yes, but those are marketing departments, not IT people.
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
Is this unique to scale?
In other words, can you get multi-host HC in Hyper-V without a third party add-on? How about ESXi? I've been under an assumption that you can't. That a third party add-on (if such a thing even exists) would be required to get multi-host HC.
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HD by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I think you got autocorrected a bit here. HD, AJ?
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Is the really HC then? I'd say no... Because to be HC all things have to looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter.. i.e. normal Scale setup.
Absolutely it is HC still. And your description says why. Just like Scale without HA still "looks like one giant thing, and the where and how it's running really don't matter."
So you're saying the scale stuff in non HA mode just handles where everything goes? The user/admin in general doesn't know what is on each physical host?... Ok in that case that's better...
Yes, it's exactly the same as it is when there is HA, but not HA. Exactly the same.
Is this unique to scale?
No, I'd be shocked if there is any platform that isn't like this. It's the obvious way that things would work. Essentially you'd always have to go out of your way to block this from working.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HD by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I think you got autocorrected a bit here. HD, AJ?
Fixed
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@Dashrender said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Swimming without a full-blown solution like scale that happens to not include a j that you don't get these features. I.e. if you have a bunch of Hyper-V machines you don't get HC by default you have to add some third party process or product on top to get it?
I'm still not quite sure what this says. Hyper-V alone doesn't have any ability to scale past one node while remaining converged.
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@coliver said in Is HyperConvergence Even a Thing:
Hyperconverged to me is bringing disparate interfaces and technologies into one box. Storage, Hypervisor, Management, and Network on a single box managed from a single interface.
This is exactly correct and it's what a lot of vendors (including Microsoft) don't understand.
