Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?
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@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
Again, these are the best of the worst approaches, as the goal to should be to not leave data on enduser systems. Of course this is reality and it will occur.
Sure. But not taking backups will occur, too and our answer would always be "fix that." That things "will happen" doesn't mean that we shouldn't fix them.
And the immediate answer to the question is a solution that can be implemented "today" without interfering with production....
...while potentially creating huge cost because of backing up massive amounts of data to get a few GB that may not be able to be identified.
Of course this is likely, with UrBackup you can specify to only backup specific directories from the client pc. I'd imagine Veeam Endpoint has this same functionality.
And this of course means you have another backup system to maintain.
But also requires the same diligence that moving to central storage would do. If you can force your users to follow a single process to make client backups so limited, you can almost certainly move them to a central data store, too. The one effectively creates the possibility of the other.
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@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
Again, these are the best of the worst approaches, as the goal to should be to not leave data on enduser systems. Of course this is reality and it will occur.
Sure. But not taking backups will occur, too and our answer would always be "fix that." That things "will happen" doesn't mean that we shouldn't fix them.
And the immediate answer to the question is a solution that can be implemented "today" without interfering with production....
...while potentially creating huge cost because of backing up massive amounts of data to get a few GB that may not be able to be identified.
Of course this is likely, with UrBackup you can specify to only backup specific directories from the client pc. I'd imagine Veeam Endpoint has this same functionality.
And this of course means you have another backup system to maintain.
But also requires the same diligence that moving to central storage would do. If you can force your users to follow a single process to make client backups so limited, you can almost certainly move them to a central data store, too. The one effectively creates the possibility of the other.
OK so this is a great time for Scott to post about his preferred centralized storage solution for this problem. Assume Windows clients but no AD, Assume pre existing NAS - go. What do you recommend for the top to bottom solution for data storage and DR.
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@Dashrender said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@scottalanmiller said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
@DustinB3403 said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
Again, these are the best of the worst approaches, as the goal to should be to not leave data on enduser systems. Of course this is reality and it will occur.
Sure. But not taking backups will occur, too and our answer would always be "fix that." That things "will happen" doesn't mean that we shouldn't fix them.
And the immediate answer to the question is a solution that can be implemented "today" without interfering with production....
...while potentially creating huge cost because of backing up massive amounts of data to get a few GB that may not be able to be identified.
Of course this is likely, with UrBackup you can specify to only backup specific directories from the client pc. I'd imagine Veeam Endpoint has this same functionality.
And this of course means you have another backup system to maintain.
But also requires the same diligence that moving to central storage would do. If you can force your users to follow a single process to make client backups so limited, you can almost certainly move them to a central data store, too. The one effectively creates the possibility of the other.
OK so this is a great time for Scott to post about his preferred centralized storage solution for this problem. Assume Windows clients but no AD, Assume pre existing NAS - go. What do you recommend for the top to bottom solution for data storage and DR.
Situational. Could be mapped drives, folder redirection or moving to NextCloud.
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@Dashrender and I were discussing this and I wanted to clarify... my point about the best backup is no backup is that we generally want to keep end user equipment stateless, but people outside of IT rarely understand why we do this. I was never suggesting that the OP did not know this, only that he likely wasn't pushing back on the business for not doing this. It's likely some layer of managers outside of IT creating the need for a solution and very often IT is expected to just "fix the issue" rather than to be involved in strategic planning. This is a point where the OP can push on the business and show how infrastructure is about to be deployed that likely is not ideal and the business needs to fix processes - if it doesn't get fixed right as an investment in the "old way" is made, the technical debt from this investment will make changes in the future essentially impossible.
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IT is expected to just "fix the issue" rather than to be involved in strategic planning. (+100)
And its very true when you have very limited budget to fix things, and I tend to have to rely on free and open source tech and what I have, cause I reckon you got used to be working with top of the line companies that understand there should be an initial cost for things to work smoothly in the foreseeable future.
I swear I learn alot with your replies, cause you give me the ideal way of how things should be, the best scenario for fixing the issue, but sometimes due to living in the developed/3rd world we have to make a bit of shortcuts, and there are other factors that we have to work with including stuff that you guys long ago dumped which is Piracy, but people here are generally are not accustomed to pay for software, they dont understand that notion, they just understands paying for hardware.
Also lately being the sole I.T where I work and kinda of limited budget gets me alot frustrated, I have to work with Asus AS1002T with 2x 2TB RAID 1 WD RED which is relatively good NAS for home, but not what I say amazing or business ready. But what to do when you explain the need of big storage system like SAN RACK and management tell you lets try with smaller one first and see how it goes...
I recall you blogged about this and made neat article about who makes the decisions I.T or management, and the conclusion was or how I understood it that it eventually management and we I.T have to live with the consequence the majority of time, and good companies/organization are the ones that make I.T more involved during this process.
To be honest, I am bit frustrated where I live and work, cause I have to always deal with shortcuts, it did teach me alot about how to do things in very cheap manner... for example KVM Virtualization instead of ESXi or using ESXi free and alot of scripts and OVA export and manual backups of VMs, Mumble/murmur (skype alternative) , using Win7/Windows 2008 instead of 2012 or anything beyond that due to reasons only specific people will know (Daz is the champ), but I reckon the world have grown past this, but what do at the end you have to learn and generate results, like it or not.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
IT is expected to just "fix the issue" rather than to be involved in strategic planning. (+100)
And its very true when you have very limited budget to fix things, and I tend to have to rely on free and open source tech and what I have, cause I reckon you got used to be working with top of the line companies that understand there should be an initial cost for things to work smoothly in the foreseeable future.
You know, this is really all over the place. I do tend to work with top of the line companies that understand these things, but partially that is because I am pretty aggressively business oriented and will create that situation. I don't talk to businesses about "this is a great tech", I talk in terms of money. I make them talk in money. When they have to say "We don't care about profits, screw the company!" out loud, then things tend to change. Change the conversation from technology to business, the tech is only how to implement the business decisions.
Does this work 100%, no. Does it work 99%, yes. It takes practice, but this is IT's role. This is where IT moves from a cost center to being valuable. This is how you make the leap from one pay strata to another. If IT only enacts bad decisions, it can't be worth much money. If IT drives improvements in the business that save or generate money, IT earns the money for good pay.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
And its very true when you have very limited budget to fix things, and I tend to have to rely on free and open source tech and what I have....
I tend to do this, even when there is a big budget - because when I run the numbers, open source solutions tend to be the most cost effective. Certainly not always, and that's why we always run the numbers and make businesses cases even if just to ourselves, but the majority of the time. I rarely pay for a hypervisor, rarely pay for an OS, rarely pay for a database and so forth - but not because budgets are tight, because of just good business practice.
In the case here, I'm not suggesting that you "spend more money", certainly not. I'm suggesting that you change business practices (or at least show the value of it) to lower the overall cost. Spending less is key.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
I recall you blogged about this and made neat article about who makes the decisions I.T or management, and the conclusion was or how I understood it that it eventually management and we I.T have to live with the consequence the majority of time, and good companies/organization are the ones that make I.T more involved during this process.
That's very true. But an important IT "life skill" if you will is learning to influence this process. Many (most) companies don't give IT the power that it needs. But to be fair, most IT doesn't give the business a reason not to. As a sole IT person, you have a lot of potential to influence this. Doesn't always work, but it often does. How you present IT suggestions, how you justify them (even to yourself), leading with business/finance discussions and such can nearly force the company to switch from seeing you as a costly techie to being a valuable business leader. Not every small company cares if you can do a good job, but forcing them to think in business terms and forcing them to admit to intentionally making reckless financial decisions (when it is true) is a powerful force, especially if the people pulling the strings for these decisions have to then report higher up and would not want to admit to intentionally wasting money or putting the business at risk.
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@msff-amman-Itofficer said in Best Software to backup to NAS automatically with versions/purging support?:
To be honest, I am bit frustrated where I live and work, cause I have to always deal with shortcuts, it did teach me alot about how to do things in very cheap manner... for example KVM Virtualization instead of ESXi or using ESXi free and alot of scripts and OVA export and manual backups of VMs, Mumble/murmur (skype alternative) , using Win7/Windows 2008 instead of 2012 or anything beyond that due to reasons only specific people will know (Daz is the champ), but I reckon the world have grown past this, but what do at the end you have to learn and generate results, like it or not.
Oh no, this is super common. But there is are good ways to approach this and bad ways. For example, when not paying for ESXi support, KVM is far and away the better choice. Or XS or Hyper-V. Running half assed ESXi is bad, but you can run other things that are free, very well. And loads of "good" companies do this, too. Free isn't bad, nor is paid. Both have their place, and both can be run well or poorly.
Windows 2008 instead of something current, that's a different issue. That's running old and while there are cases where that makes sense, they are rare. It suggests that the company can't afford its technology choices. I would step back and evaluate the "why" these products are chosen if they can't be run properly, when there are even cheaper (read: free) options that you could run really well.
Does that make sense? Running Linux well is generally better than running Windows poorly. If there is no choice but to run Windows poorly, I'd reconsider if this should be classified as a company because even at home I can afford to run Windows well. This puts the company solidly under the home line and makes it, at best, a hobby to me.
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Did anyone mention CrashPlan?
They have a free offering that should work.
