Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup
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@dafyre said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@FATeknollogee said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
Who came up with this rule?
It's not really a rule... more of a guidline really.
But if you're going to use a server as a Hypervisor, why add all the extra overhead of a GUI attached to it and all that?
Edit: My guess would be @scottalanmiller or @JaredBusch , lol.
It's one of the REAL best practices. It's more than a rule. It's way, way, way more than a guideline. This isn't a "sometimes do this" kind of thing, it's an "always". I can't think of any factor that could provide an exception.
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@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@FATeknollogee said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
Who came up with this rule?
It's one of the most fundamental rules of system design. It's been a rule for centuries. It's just turned into a rule of thumb with Windows because it is an anti-pattern.
Installing the OS adds overhead and risk without benefit. It's complication only for the sake of complication. When two things are equal, simplicity is better than complexity. But in this case, they are not equal. The OS install method brings huge caveats, licensing probably being the biggest.
You'll keep saying the installing the the full version of Server 2012/2016 brings about huge licensing issues ... how ? doesn't 2012/2016 allow 2VSOE, and 1 OS ?
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@FATeknollogee said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@DustinB3403 said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
The point of not installing Server OS # onto the hardware for a Hypervisor has always been a guideline. And the reason being is it's wasted resources and energy.
You wouldn't install XenServer under Ubuntu.
Type 1 hypervisors exist for a reason, and it's so they can manage the hardware, and be as close to the hardware as possible for the management task.
Windows Server 201x (installed on bare metal) with Hyper-V role enabled is a Type 1 hypervisor, not sure why you think it's not.
Just one with extra overhead and risk.
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@JaredBusch said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@FATeknollogee said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@JaredBusch said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
Now on to your hypervisor. Do not, ever, install Microsoft Server onto the bare metal. Install Hyper-V Server. Period. End of story.
Does this "rule" also apply to Windows Server 2016 with Hyper-V role enabled?
This rule has applied to all Hyper-V installations since Hyper-V Server 2012 was released. There is no other way that Hyper-V should ever be deployed for the SMB.
The exception to the rule (and only because people can be lazy) is if every single physical system was licensed with Server 20XX DataCenter. At that point you are licensed to run anything anywhere, so who cares. Be lazy, install Server on everything if you want. I still would not, but that is up to you.
More importantly, and this is what makes it a best practice not a guideline, this applies to all virtualization and is in no way MIcrosoft specific. It is only seen as a Windows guideline because only Windows creates a system that oddly encourages such a horrific idea. You can't easily do the same thing with any other hypervisor so it doesn't come up. So it feels like we are stating a Windows guideline, when in reality it is just the Windows / Hyper-V manifestation of a true industry best practice.
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
I was told to install 2012 R2, simply because it's a more mature OS, by virtue of it being around for longer .. Infact, I'd prefer working on 2016
That's wrong. It is LESS mature BECAUSE it has been around "longer." Windows 2016 is the continuation of 2012 R2, it's the more mature, longer lived version of it. Windows 2012 R2 is the same family as 2016, but 2016 has two more years of maturity under its belt. Whoever is directing you doesn't understand software and is giving you a reason that should have led to a different decision. So you have a logic problem in management somewhere.
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@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
I was told to install 2012 R2, simply because it's a more mature OS, by virtue of it being around for longer .. Infact, I'd prefer working on 2016
That's wrong. It is LESS mature BECAUSE it has been around "longer." Windows 2016 is the continuation of 2012 R2, it's the more mature, longer lived version of it. Windows 2012 R2 is the same family as 2016, but 2016 has two more years of maturity under its belt. Whoever is directing you doesn't understand software and is giving you a reason that should have led to a different decision. So you have a logic problem in management somewhere.
hmm... interesting way to look at it .. makes sense, when you put it this way...
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
On Windows 8x, we use RSAT to manage Windows 2012 Server. Can the same RSAT be used to managed 2016 Server, or Hyper-V 2016 ?
Only Windows 10 can manage 2016. RDP should never be used. You've discovered yet another problem in the environment. Why is IT's equipment not current or even close to current?
Also, don't call it Windows 8.x. Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are totally different versions, the same as Windows 7 and Windows 10. Don't lump them together as if they are more related than they are to Vista, 7 or 10.
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
My main reason for installing the full server, is non-familiarity with Powershell, and lack of proper freely available GUI tools, to manage remotely ....
There is no lack of freely available GUI tools for remote management. Windows comes loaded with these tools built in, even using nothing but a properly set up Windows environment provides everything that you need. But if you want even more than they offer, 5Nine offers a free version of their product that you could use, too. You have more than enough options to make sure that you never consider installing a GUI onto the server itself.
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@Dashrender said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
The client's desire to not purchase the correct drives is one of @scottalanmiller's famous sunk cost fallacies.
Kind of, although what they have sounds like it will work fine. What's of great concern here is:
- How could such basic, foolish business decisions have gotten made? They bought the wrong server. Then they tried to bandaid that and bought the wrong drives. How are they arriving at these decisions and how are they looking into correcting this? These are mistakes that take literally zero IT knowledge to identify and fix. So this means that the problems are core business problems and should be very scary.
- How does a "company" find the amount of money involved here even worth discussing? This is so little money that you should not be able to justify even five minutes of discussing it, even with a staff of just two people. Sounds like they are not making any money and have no plans to make any. They have fallen below the home line, that's where you should be worried.
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okay ... let's say, I install Hyper-V 2016... how do I manage, using a GUI, from a remote non-domain Windows 8.1 machine, via VPN ? I installed RSAT, but, some features worked, some did'nt.. same with Hyper-V Manager .. Most of the functions kept giving me Access Denied..even after I used "runas"
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
- list item We've decided to go-ahead with Windows 2016. Infact, I'm even free to use Hyper-V Server 2016. However, I'm not at all comfortable with working without a GUI.. I don't want to be in situation where I have to Google Powershell commands for even mundane things like creating VHDX files ... Plus, Remote GUI tools such as Hyper-V manager and RSAT (On Windows 8x), are cumbersome to setup, especially when the remote machine is a non-domain machine..
Some PowerShell is simply a requirement of Hyper-V, the decision to need PowerShell was made when someone chose Hyper-V. If you wanted pure GUI they would have bought you a Scale HC3 appliance or similar. Whoever is making these decisions above you made this decision, that you need PowerShell, at least a little, is simple part and parcel with their decisions here.
You really should get comfortable at working without a GUI, if you were anywhere except on Windows it's not even allowed to be called "knowing a system" if you still require a GUI. On Windows, there is a common social acceptance of a lower level of knowledge that allows people to skim by using only a GUI, but if you talk to Linux admins, for example, they often won't accept it if you say that you "know Windows" if you still require a GUI. Learning PowerShell is one of the core skills of being a Windows Admin, when you have a moment, start spending time on it. I mostly only use PowerShell when working on Windows and I'm not a Windows Admin.
In what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
Why is the remote machine not on the domain? Or, more importantly, why is Hyper-V on the domain? Hyper-V should not be on the domain in this case.
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
Any suggestions on how to make remote management easier/smoother ? 5nine Free ?
Windows 10 should make it so easy that there is nothing more to discuss. But 5Nine Free would definitely be worth checking out.
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@FATeknollogee said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
Who came up with this rule?
It's one of the most fundamental rules of system design. It's been a rule for centuries. It's just turned into a rule of thumb with Windows because it is an anti-pattern.
Installing the OS adds overhead and risk without benefit. It's complication only for the sake of complication. When two things are equal, simplicity is better than complexity. But in this case, they are not equal. The OS install method brings huge caveats, licensing probably being the biggest.
You'll keep saying the installing the the full version of Server 2012/2016 brings about huge licensing issues ... how ? doesn't 2012/2016 allow 2VSOE, and 1 OS ?
Yes, that's all that it allows. It means that you have to track that license, for forever. It means limiting future options. It means someone thinking that they can install something to the Dom0 will be piracy. It is HUGE complexity that people regularly don't understand. By doing it, you take something super simple that no one needs to think about and turning it into something that everyone that touches the system needs to understand.
And what if that hardware starts to fail and people want to move their licenses to another box, suddenly the old box has no hypervisor - for no reason.
It's a foolish move that sets the company up for failure down the road.
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@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
I keep getting an access denied, even though, I use RSAT with proper credentials belonging to the remote server..
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
I keep getting an access denied, even though, I use RSAT with proper credentials belonging to the remote server..
But you are using the wrong version, right? So that's not unexpected.
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@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
I keep getting an access denied, even though, I use RSAT with proper credentials belonging to the remote server..
But you are using the wrong version, right? So that's not unexpected.
Seems more like an access issue, rather than a version issue
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
I keep getting an access denied, even though, I use RSAT with proper credentials belonging to the remote server..
But you are using the wrong version, right? So that's not unexpected.
Seems more like an access issue, rather than a version issue
Possible. Are you using a VPN? Is there Active Directory?
- Make sure AD is not tied to Hyper-V, Hyper-V in this setup should not use AD at all. It needs to be totally independent.
- Use a local Windows 10 machine at the customer site and RDP to that, don't use a VPN to customer sites (for loads of reasons, but simplicity is the one here.)
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
okay ... let's say, I install Hyper-V 2016... how do I manage, using a GUI, from a remote non-domain Windows 8.1 machine, via VPN ? I installed RSAT, but, some features worked, some did'nt.. same with Hyper-V Manager .. Most of the functions kept giving me Access Denied..even after I used "runas"
You probably need to be on a non-domain joined machine. If your machine is joined to your domain, you won't be able to runas a user on the domain of the client.
You can run a Virtual machine on your computer, VPN from that into the client's network, that virtual machine can be a member of the client's domain, that should solve your issues.
As Scott said, you'll need Windows 10 to manage 2016 correctly.
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@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
I keep getting an access denied, even though, I use RSAT with proper credentials belonging to the remote server..
But you are using the wrong version, right? So that's not unexpected.
Seems more like an access issue, rather than a version issue
Possible. Are you using a VPN? Is there Active Directory?
- Make sure AD is not tied to Hyper-V, Hyper-V in this setup should not use AD at all. It needs to be totally independent.
- Use a local Windows 10 machine at the customer site and RDP to that, don't use a VPN to customer sites (for loads of reasons, but simplicity is the one here.)
No AD as yet... I RDP to the server, via VPN
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@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@dr.funkenstein said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
@scottalanmiller said in Storage Provisioning For a Single Hyper-V Server Setup:
what way are you finding the RSAT tools cumbersome? I find them incredible easy. Where are you running into complications? Also, you need to be on Windows 10, obviously. Again, whoever chose Windows as your environment made most of these decisions for you.
I keep getting an access denied, even though, I use RSAT with proper credentials belonging to the remote server..
But you are using the wrong version, right? So that's not unexpected.
Seems more like an access issue, rather than a version issue
Possible. Are you using a VPN? Is there Active Directory?
- Make sure AD is not tied to Hyper-V, Hyper-V in this setup should not use AD at all. It needs to be totally independent.
- Use a local Windows 10 machine at the customer site and RDP to that, don't use a VPN to customer sites (for loads of reasons, but simplicity is the one here.)
No AD as yet... I RDP to the server, via VPN
What kind of VPN do you have?
