Ubiquity EULA
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
And do we know what it is, exactly? They don't tell us exactly what it is.
You can just look at it though, right?
Maybe it's encrypted.
You know, that is an interesting question. I assume the answer is ... of course, but. Do you legally own the data coming from that device going to Ubiquity as long as it's still on your network?
Of course, YOU are the one encrypting it.
No, I mean maybe UBNT encrypts it on the device, themselves. You wouldn't have access to that.
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
And do we know what it is, exactly? They don't tell us exactly what it is.
You can just look at it though, right?
Maybe it's encrypted.
You know, that is an interesting question. I assume the answer is ... of course, but. Do you legally own the data coming from that device going to Ubiquity as long as it's still on your network?
Of course, YOU are the one encrypting it.
No, I mean maybe UBNT encrypts it on the device, themselves. You wouldn't have access to that.
That's YOUR device and YOUR code encrypting it. Not them. Otherwise, do you feel that they own everything on your network that passes through the router by the nature of them having built the router?
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
And do we know what it is, exactly? They don't tell us exactly what it is.
You can just look at it though, right?
Maybe it's encrypted.
You know, that is an interesting question. I assume the answer is ... of course, but. Do you legally own the data coming from that device going to Ubiquity as long as it's still on your network?
Of course, YOU are the one encrypting it.
No, I mean maybe UBNT encrypts it on the device, themselves. You wouldn't have access to that.
That's YOUR device and YOUR code encrypting it. Not them. Otherwise, do you feel that they own everything on your network that passes through the router by the nature of them having built the router?
Now you've lost me. If I didn't put a code for UBNT to use to encrypt decrypt this anonymous data - how is it my code? If I'm lucky I checke/unchecked a box - if I'm unlucky, there is no UI indication of this happening, and only through reading the EULA am I even aware that this is happening.
Now I have to turn on wireshark and capture traffic from the controller until I find this traffic - which would be like looking for a needle in a haystack - and then analyze it, etc, etc, etc...
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
And do we know what it is, exactly? They don't tell us exactly what it is.
You can just look at it though, right?
Maybe it's encrypted.
You know, that is an interesting question. I assume the answer is ... of course, but. Do you legally own the data coming from that device going to Ubiquity as long as it's still on your network?
Of course, YOU are the one encrypting it.
No, I mean maybe UBNT encrypts it on the device, themselves. You wouldn't have access to that.
That's YOUR device and YOUR code encrypting it. Not them. Otherwise, do you feel that they own everything on your network that passes through the router by the nature of them having built the router?
I didn't write the firmware. Isn't it possible they are encrypting the information they are sending back to themselves? In fact, isn't it probable?
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@Dashrender said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
And do we know what it is, exactly? They don't tell us exactly what it is.
You can just look at it though, right?
Maybe it's encrypted.
You know, that is an interesting question. I assume the answer is ... of course, but. Do you legally own the data coming from that device going to Ubiquity as long as it's still on your network?
Of course, YOU are the one encrypting it.
No, I mean maybe UBNT encrypts it on the device, themselves. You wouldn't have access to that.
That's YOUR device and YOUR code encrypting it. Not them. Otherwise, do you feel that they own everything on your network that passes through the router by the nature of them having built the router?
Now you've lost me. If I didn't put a code for UBNT to use to encrypt decrypt this anonymous data - how is it my code? If I'm lucky I checke/unchecked a box - if I'm unlucky, there is no UI indication of this happening, and only through reading the EULA am I even aware that this is happening.
Now I have to turn on wireshark and capture traffic from the controller until I find this traffic - which would be like looking for a needle in a haystack - and then analyze it, etc, etc, etc...
Because:
- Open source, it's as much yours as anyone else's.
- You own the device and the code running on it.
- It's up to you to leave it, remove it, change it, etc.
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
And do we know what it is, exactly? They don't tell us exactly what it is.
You can just look at it though, right?
Maybe it's encrypted.
You know, that is an interesting question. I assume the answer is ... of course, but. Do you legally own the data coming from that device going to Ubiquity as long as it's still on your network?
Of course, YOU are the one encrypting it.
No, I mean maybe UBNT encrypts it on the device, themselves. You wouldn't have access to that.
That's YOUR device and YOUR code encrypting it. Not them. Otherwise, do you feel that they own everything on your network that passes through the router by the nature of them having built the router?
I didn't write the firmware. Isn't it possible they are encrypting the information they are sending back to themselves? In fact, isn't it probable?
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
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@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
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Also it says you may NOT
"(d) modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise attempt (i) to defeat, avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or otherwise circumvent any software protection mechanisms in the Ubiquiti Firmware, including without limitation any such mechanism used to restrict or control the functionality of the Ubiquiti Firmware, or (ii) to derive the source code or the underlying ideas, algorithms, structure or organization from the Ubiquiti Firmware (except that the foregoing limitation does not apply to the extent that such activities may not be prohibited under applicable law);"
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
That is FROM the license page.
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
That is FROM the license page.
That's the EULA page. EdgeOS is Linux, based on Vyatta. Ubiquiti doesn't own it any more or less than you do. It's GPL. GPL is your guarantee that you have control.
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
Also it says you may NOT
"(d) modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise attempt (i) to defeat, avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or otherwise circumvent any software protection mechanisms in the Ubiquiti Firmware, including without limitation any such mechanism used to restrict or control the functionality of the Ubiquiti Firmware, or (ii) to derive the source code or the underlying ideas, algorithms, structure or organization from the Ubiquiti Firmware (except that the foregoing limitation does not apply to the extent that such activities may not be prohibited under applicable law);"
IF they are running EdgeOS, you own it. You have as much right to say that they can't modify it as they can say that you can't. If there are non-GPL portions, that's different. But the OS on that hardware is not their copyright or their copyleft to make claims against.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
That is FROM the license page.
That's the EULA page. EdgeOS is Linux, based on Vyatta. Ubiquiti doesn't own it any more or less than you do. It's GPL. GPL is your guarantee that you have control.
They are talking about their firmware. Those are the licensing terms to use their firmware. Without which you cannot use their products.
What am I missing here?
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
That is FROM the license page.
That's the EULA page. EdgeOS is Linux, based on Vyatta. Ubiquiti doesn't own it any more or less than you do. It's GPL. GPL is your guarantee that you have control.
They are talking about their firmware. Those are the licensing terms to use their firmware. Without which you cannot use their products.
What am I missing here?
Are they considering EdgeOS the firmware or the software? Figure that out first. Because the data is sent from EdgeOS, which they cannot make those statements about.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
That is FROM the license page.
That's the EULA page. EdgeOS is Linux, based on Vyatta. Ubiquiti doesn't own it any more or less than you do. It's GPL. GPL is your guarantee that you have control.
They are talking about their firmware. Those are the licensing terms to use their firmware. Without which you cannot use their products.
What am I missing here?
Are they considering EdgeOS the firmware or the software? Figure that out first. Because the data is sent from EdgeOS, which they cannot make those statements about.
but they could have non GPL code running on EdgeOS that's doing this portion, then you can't just crack that open, etc.
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@Dashrender said
but they could have non GPL code running on EdgeOS that's doing this portion, then you can't just crack that open, etc.
Yes, why would you assume the "sending data back to UBNT" part is part of GPL?
Sure, maybe it does the transport, but perhaps the other stuff is proprietary.
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@Dashrender said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said
Hopefully, so look at the code if you want and see what is collected, rather than what is sent. This isn't closed source, there is no limit to your knowledge of your own security.
It isn't?
"The Ubiquiti Firmware is copyright-protected material under United States and international copyright and other applicable laws. Unauthorized copying, use or modification of ANY PART of this firmware, or violation of the terms of this Agreement, will be prosecuted under the law."
Have you checked their license?
That is FROM the license page.
That's the EULA page. EdgeOS is Linux, based on Vyatta. Ubiquiti doesn't own it any more or less than you do. It's GPL. GPL is your guarantee that you have control.
They are talking about their firmware. Those are the licensing terms to use their firmware. Without which you cannot use their products.
What am I missing here?
Are they considering EdgeOS the firmware or the software? Figure that out first. Because the data is sent from EdgeOS, which they cannot make those statements about.
but they could have non GPL code running on EdgeOS that's doing this portion, then you can't just crack that open, etc.
Correct, if the code is closed (very unlikely) then you can just disable it.
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@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@Dashrender said
but they could have non GPL code running on EdgeOS that's doing this portion, then you can't just crack that open, etc.
Yes, why would you assume the "sending data back to UBNT" part is part of GPL?
Sure, maybe it does the transport, but perhaps the other stuff is proprietary.
Valid point. But it runs on GPL portions. So if you can't see into it, you can disable it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@Dashrender said
but they could have non GPL code running on EdgeOS that's doing this portion, then you can't just crack that open, etc.
Yes, why would you assume the "sending data back to UBNT" part is part of GPL?
Sure, maybe it does the transport, but perhaps the other stuff is proprietary.
Valid point. But it runs on GPL portions. So if you can't see into it, you can disable it.
Wouldn't you consider that an
"attempt (i) to defeat, avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or otherwise circumvent any software protection mechanisms in the Ubiquiti Firmware, including without limitation any such mechanism used to restrict or control the functionality of the Ubiquiti Firmware" -
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@scottalanmiller said in Ubiquity EULA:
@BRRABill said in Ubiquity EULA:
@Dashrender said
but they could have non GPL code running on EdgeOS that's doing this portion, then you can't just crack that open, etc.
Yes, why would you assume the "sending data back to UBNT" part is part of GPL?
Sure, maybe it does the transport, but perhaps the other stuff is proprietary.
Valid point. But it runs on GPL portions. So if you can't see into it, you can disable it.
Wouldn't you consider that an
"attempt (i) to defeat, avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or otherwise circumvent any software protection mechanisms in the Ubiquiti Firmware, including without limitation any such mechanism used to restrict or control the functionality of the Ubiquiti Firmware"Like I said, they can't tell you that you can't do this. It's GPL code on there, it's not theirs to dictate. It's yours. The GPL gives you rights.
