No Longer Salaried.
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
Most HR lawyers state that if you pay hourly you are not allowed to be exempt. That's having it both ways. - The employer gets to only pay you for the hours you worked but no more than 40hrs paid no matter what.
Hourly can definitely be exempt. But there is obviously no cap at 40 hours, where did that idea come from? Hourly means you pay for every hour. Exempt means that you don't pay overtime. There is nothing related to the forty hours in what I said.
Here is how non-exempt hourly works....
Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate + 20 x hourly rate x 1.5.And exempt hourly...
Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
Work 60 hours a week, paid 60 x hourly rate.Hourly means that you get paid for every hour. Exempt has to do with the overtime bit. When you are salaried and have to deal with being non-exempt you get weird issues because you have to be paid for the time plus the overtime when you go too high. It's very complex and basically never worth it. But hourly exempt is very common and normal and doesn't cause any problems. At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.
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@Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:
@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
@momurda said in No Longer Salaried.:
why is the exempt hourly rate more than 2x the salary rate? 455/week salary vs 1k+ a week hourly.
Because they REALLY don't want people being salaried below the exemption rates. It gets messy, but it is there for when it is needed.
Why not just have a company track hours regardless? I guess the answer to that is the expense in tracking it.
It's a huge expense and the idea is that hourly and salaried track different ways of working. For example, admins should be hourly, engineers should be salaried (in general, always an exception.) Because one you pay for their "time of being available" and the other you pay for their "thought processes."
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@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
And exempt hourly...
Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.And that is exactly what I said you are capped at the pay of 40hrs. but if you work less than 40hrs you are still paid less than 40.
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@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.
What are the regs for hourly - exempt?
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
And exempt hourly...
Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.And that is exactly what I said you are capped at the pay of 40hrs. but if you work less than 40hrs you are still paid less than 40.
I fixed that, it was a typo. I fixed it a bit before you responded but you must have had it cached.
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@Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:
@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.
What are the regs for hourly - exempt?
There is a floor pay rate, once above that there is no requirement to pay more. The idea of "time and a half" doesn't exist, so it's not overtime, it's just time.
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@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
@Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:
@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.
What are the regs for hourly - exempt?
There is a floor pay rate, once above that there is no requirement to pay more. The idea of "time and a half" doesn't exist, so it's not overtime, it's just time.
What is that floor?
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So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they shouldn't be?
according to the description only consultants & software developers can be.
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
And exempt hourly...
Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.This above is actually called a weekly rate, it's neither hourly nor salaried. I've seen a lot of places do "day rate" where you get paid X per day, regardless of work done. Or day rate + hourly which gets really confusing.
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they should be?
Everyone wants to treat people as exempt because it's by far the easiest to deal with and potentially pays the least. Especially if you can get availability based jobs listed under exempt you can work them to the bone because they can never get away.
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@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they should be?
Everyone wants to treat people as exempt because it's by far the easiest to deal with and potentially pays the least. Especially if you can get availability based jobs listed under exempt you can work them to the bone because they can never get away.
That may be changing. I know us and GE both made this change based on lawyers recommendations.
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
@scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:
@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they should be?
Everyone wants to treat people as exempt because it's by far the easiest to deal with and potentially pays the least. Especially if you can get availability based jobs listed under exempt you can work them to the bone because they can never get away.
That may be changing. I know us and GE both made this change based on lawyers recommendations.
And that's why Wall St. basically across the board does hourly for admins (and helpdesk and other stuff) even when exempt, because it just makes sense. Pay the people doing 70 hours more than those doing 40 hours, otherwise no one will work more. Even a decade ago, that was standard.
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Hopefully it changes, but it's always been bad and not allowed. But maybe they are cracking down and catching people more and more. Just like they are with fake 1099 situations which used to be so common but was just a tax dodge.
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Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.
LOL - wow - I guess they are only doing that to keep from being sued.
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@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.
While the postponement sucks, the extra money does not!
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@Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:
@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.
LOL - wow - I guess they are only doing that to keep from being sued.
I'm sure that was the primary motivating factor.
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The other company I mention from time to time ran afoul of this a few years ago.
They had listed a non technical department as salaried - exempt. the employees complained to the state that they weren't being paid overtime. The state agreed and said the company could declare them as salaried - non exempt.
The company then said that all employees (in that department) had to start punching a clock. If they didn't put in at least 40 hours, they would be written up and possibly fired.
Instead of getting OT, people ended up getting fired when they suddenly realized how their late entries to work, long lunches and early going home amounted to them working less than 40 hours regularly.
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@Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:
@Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:
Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.
LOL - wow - I guess they are only doing that to keep from being sued.
Well, duh. lol
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@Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:
The other company I mention from time to time ran afoul of this a few years ago.
They had listed a non technical department as salaried - exempt. the employees complained to the state that they weren't being paid overtime. The state agreed and said the company could declare them as salaried - non exempt.
The company then said that all employees (in that department) had to start punching a clock. If they didn't put in at least 40 hours, they would be written up and possibly fired.
Instead of getting OT, people ended up getting fired when they suddenly realized how their late entries to work, long lunches and early going home amounted to them working less than 40 hours regularly.
Yup, that's often why people get salaried, let's them get paid for "being around" and "thinking about work."
