How to enter the IT world?
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@ryanov said in How to enter the IT world?:
As someone who works in the IT world and is generally surrounded by people who aren't very good at their jobs, the "how can I enter the field making $80k" bit is pretty off-putting. I totally understand wanting to make a living wage, but when you lead off with that, I feel like "you know what, I can find someone who is totally new at this with no practical work experience for way less than $80k." Maybe I'm making a judgement that I shouldn't be from not much text, but I'm not so sure I'm wrong.
Interesting. Perhaps I read to little into that. I wouldn't expect the OP to make $80K day one with no experience, but in following some, most or all of Scott's recommendations and getting several years of experience, $80K shouldn't be undoable. Top that by living in places like NYC or LA, that would be a living wage.
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@Dashrender said in How to enter the IT world?:
Top that by living in places like NYC or LA, that would be a living wage.
SF in the OP's case. I happen to know. So $80K is not high at all in that market. It's very reasonable.
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@scottalanmiller The number aside, someone asking "how can I go from basically no experience to entering this career" and has a salary number in mind in practically his opening sentence, I'm personally going to draw a conclusion. I've been interviewing people pretty much continuously since July, and since I don't need another useless co-worker, I'm on the lookout for red flags, and this one is a red flag to me (as are people who apply for jobs they're clearly not qualified, or who list work experience that is clearly not worth the salary they're asking for). I can't imagine I'm the only person on earth interviewing that would draw that conclusion, especially when the primary question is how to learn the field.
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@ryanov said in How to enter the IT world?:
@scottalanmiller The number aside, someone asking "how can I go from basically no experience to entering this career" and has a salary number in mind in practically his opening sentence, I'm personally going to draw a conclusion. I've been interviewing people pretty much continuously since July, and since I don't need another useless co-worker, I'm on the lookout for red flags, and this one is a red flag to me (as are people who apply for jobs they're clearly not qualified, or who list work experience that is clearly not worth the salary they're asking for). I can't imagine I'm the only person on earth interviewing that would draw that conclusion, especially when the primary question is how to learn the field.
Agreed, saying "I want to enter field X and make Y dollars" is extremely off-putting. If an entry level candidate mentioned any salary number before an offer was tendered, there would be no offer. Get some actual experience before you start throwing numbers around.
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But he wasn't interviewing for a job.. I was stating a goal. He stated a two part goal, work in Linux and make 80K. He could have just as easily said he wanted to work in Linux and make $300K. Well to earn that much working in Linux would be severely limiting career choices. Granted the 80K is pretty middle of the road for a Linux admin, so he basically (to me) was saying that he didn't want to do anything overly hard, he just wants to be a Linux Admin.
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A bit of background that you guys are missing that I happen to know is that the OP is a senior in another field (unrelated to IT) and is currently working. So he has a specific goal of working his knowledge and experience up to a certain level before making the jump over from one to the other. He can stay in his current job until such time as his experience, knowledge and certs get him to the level that he needs in the new one. So while it may be off-putting (and I think that this is misleading because the number sounds high to those outside of his market, but those are entry level numbers more or less) it's an important part of the equation. He can't give up his current career until his IT one reaches a level where he can afford to make the jump - so gaging what he needs to do to get to that point is critical. It's not like a teenager trying to figure out the fastest path to work up to an eventually career level, it's an adult looking at how to get to a transition threshold.
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@Dashrender said in How to enter the IT world?:
But he wasn't interviewing for a job.. I was stating a goal. He stated a two part goal, work in Linux and make 80K. He could have just as easily said he wanted to work in Linux and make $300K. Well to earn that much working in Linux would be severely limiting career choices. Granted the 80K is pretty middle of the road for a Linux admin, so he basically (to me) was saying that he didn't want to do anything overly hard, he just wants to be a Linux Admin.
Exactly. And he is in a market and hangs out with experienced $300K Linux Admins, so knows that $80K, where he is, is not exactly "entry level" but is a junior pay rate for sure.
And while he doesn't have IT experience, he's working on both an IT and a software engineering background plus has a ton of experience in another field that has some degree of relevance because of soft skills to the job. So brings a lot to the table than an equally technically ready Linux Admin at say 18 years old would not have.
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@scottalanmiller said in How to enter the IT world?:
@Dashrender said in How to enter the IT world?:
But he wasn't interviewing for a job.. I was stating a goal. He stated a two part goal, work in Linux and make 80K. He could have just as easily said he wanted to work in Linux and make $300K. Well to earn that much working in Linux would be severely limiting career choices. Granted the 80K is pretty middle of the road for a Linux admin, so he basically (to me) was saying that he didn't want to do anything overly hard, he just wants to be a Linux Admin.
Exactly. And he is in a market and hangs out with experienced $300K Linux Admins, so knows that $80K, where he is, is not exactly "entry level" but is a junior pay rate for sure.
And while he doesn't have IT experience, he's working on both an IT and a software engineering background plus has a ton of experience in another field that has some degree of relevance because of soft skills to the job. So brings a lot to the table than an equally technically ready Linux Admin at say 18 years old would not have.
All that stuff should have been specified. The OP reads like an entry level / teenager wrote it. Nothing there to indicate any experience in any field.
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What does the background matter? He basically opened with it. So maybe he shouldn't open with something like that, and that's my advice about entering the field. I haven't seen anything so far that tells me I'm definitely wrong. I hear that and think "I'd tell this guy to stick to business school." (Haven't seen anything else that tells me that I've guessed wrong there either).
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see @deathofasellout ... joining a community like this is great. you've successfully got them riled up with your first post. good luck
