RANT: All the Issues are My Fault and You Won't Answer My Questions
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@scottalanmiller said:
Really? You actually cannot quit?
Well, they can't physically stop you. but you open yourself up for a law suit.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Honestly, why would anyone work in Virginia?
Pretty much only teachers and some other odd jobs are contract based like that.
Only people who can't afford lawyers, I suppose
Why would an employer not always use that, if it gives them effectively unlimited power?
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Really? You actually cannot quit?
Well, they can't physically stop you. but you open yourself up for a law suit.
Well obviously you can physically stop working. But you don't have a right to stop working? I didn't know anyone but places like India had anything like this.
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One thing you can do is move to a civilized location. Even contracts that forbid working elsewhere normally die at the border. Maybe NC won't protect you from onerous contracts in VA, but NY and CA sure will. NY will laugh at a contract like that and actually go after VA for interfering with NY business (NY did this to Florida last year.)
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@scottalanmiller said:
Honestly, why would anyone work in Virginia?
That's the exact same reason I left that ISP job years ago, they wanted me to move from NYC to Dulles, Virgnia, but now they've moved some of their HQ back there, guess they got bored too.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@PSX_Defector said:
It cuts both ways. If an employer can fire you for no reason, an employee can leave for no reason.
But that's not in at-will employment law, some people think it is. That right comes from not having an employment contract. In VA we are at will but, if you have an contract you don't have the right to quit until the contract is expired.. they still can fire or terminate you.
Contract work is different, just as if I had a union contract. Yes, if I had a contract I couldn't just up and quit, not without suffering the remedies the contract has. The company also faces liability if they up and "fire" you, as they would also suffer the remedies the contract had. Unless you are dumb and negotiated a contract where they can fire you without cause, slap a non-compete for the entire world, and make it so you have to pay the contract back in full if you quit.
If I agree to work for a company without a formal contract, I am at-will. If I work for a company with a formal contract, I am a commodity. An apple can't quit the grocery store.
There are different kinds of employment, at-will is what people would consider a "job". I apply for the job, get interviewed, then start working for them. There is no formal agreement of when I start or when I am done working there, just they offer a job and I get money certain times of the month for it. They pay me out of an account identified as "payroll" and is reported to the various tax agencies and government bric-a-brac. A "contract" worker is usually (not even delving into the usual 1099 abuses from people) hired for a set of tasks or jobs that has a start and end date. I am not paid out of payroll but out of capex. I have a document that says what I will do, what I don't do. I am no different than the guy they buy their widgets from. I am just selling my labor.
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Yes, 1099 I would understand, as that is not a form of employment but is the tax paperwork for a corp2corp contract.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Yes, 1099 I would understand, as that is not a form of employment but is the tax paperwork for a corp2corp contract.
Not to say that there couldn't be a W2 "contract worker", but seems to be counterintuitive to offer a contract that way, both for employer and employee. Which dovetails back into the main point I was going for before this train derailed, consideration.
If I was offered an at-will W2 employee position, with benefits, 401(k), time off, etc. etc., what would the consideration be for signing a non-compete? The prestige of working for someone? Now, if the going rate for the job was plenty more than other comparable positions, that would be consideration in that regards. Hence why on the face some of the non-competes are unenforceable. In our Jimmy John's example, if one were to fight it, there is nothing proprietary nor magic about making a sammich. When someone can go "sudo @Dominica make me a sammich" that is not a trade secret and couldn't be protected by making an employee sign a non-compete because he is gonna take his talents to Subway. Since the amount of money isn't significantly more (plenty of indication that it's less than market rate working for that prick) then what consideration was given to the employee to compensate them for their inability to work in the industry? On the face of it, they appear to be unenforceable.
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@PSX_Defector said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Yes, 1099 I would understand, as that is not a form of employment but is the tax paperwork for a corp2corp contract.
Not to say that there couldn't be a W2 "contract worker", but seems to be counterintuitive to offer a contract that way, both for employer and employee. Which dovetails back into the main point I was going for before this train derailed, consideration.
The two are different. a 1099 is a Contractor. Self employed, the company can not tell you how do your job just that it needs to get done. nor will they be providing tools etc.
a W2 contract employee just has a contract. The employer will be providing the tools to do the job and telling you when/how to do the job. and it's quite common. Teachers here have to sign up for a year at a time and can't quit. There are other jobs like this as well. And VA does not allow unions for public sector jobs.
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This is what the County's teacher contract PR is haha
when teachers aren't on contract they’d be more likely to leave their position, which will hurt schools already challenged to recruit and retain top-quality teachers
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@thecreativeone91 said:
This is what the County's teacher contract PR is haha
when teachers aren't on contract they’d be more likely to leave their position, which will hurt schools already challenged to recruit and retain top-quality teachers
Except now, top teachers avoid the state completely. Once you have onerous contracts, only the desperate will work there. You, basically by definition, become the bottom of the barrel. It means that top teachers either opt out of teaching or they move to competitive teaching states.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
This is what the County's teacher contract PR is haha
when teachers aren't on contract they’d be more likely to leave their position, which will hurt schools already challenged to recruit and retain top-quality teachers
Except now, top teachers avoid the state completely. Once you have onerous contracts, only the desperate will work there. You, basically by definition, become the bottom of the barrel. It means that top teachers either opt out of teaching or they move to competitive teaching states.
Probably. We received a D- rating on the PEW state score card. where as states like NY got a B+. Kentucky, WV and a few others are the only ones worse a F/F-.
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And NY has fallen to "absolutely embarrassing" levels too!
