Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...
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@IRJ said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@scottalanmiller what's an established level to you? Is it based on experience and/or salary?
I'd say experience. If you have solid established experience, you can command the salary, if that is what matters to you. Lots of top end people take small salaries because they want other benefits. Including volunteers in many cases.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@IRJ said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Yes I think you can put a $$ number on certifications. Some definitely mean guaranteed value.
None guarantee value. There is no cert that has a guaranteed ROI for everyone, absolutely none. Some are more likely than others, some have almost no value ever, some are almost always a loss. But you definitely can't say that they all have value, there is always someone high enough in any field that even the top cert, even every cert that there is, combined won't raise their salary one penny or open a single greater door. But every cert, every single one, has costs that need to be offset by something. Cost in money and cost in time.
Even the absolute best certs out there carry a reasonable amount of career risk. Maybe not a ton, and it feels good to earn the cert, but there is still a solid potential to actually lose money. Not that money is the only factor, hence why I said to put a dollar sign on the personal satisfaction to having the paper.
It's funny, one of the coolest certs I have gotten has zero marketability value, but taught me quite a bit. ECSA was fun, but nobody has heard of it.
If you have a popular non tech cert like CISSP you are instantly insanely more valuable. CISSP probably increased my value more than any other certification, but it was not technical nor fun.
Then you have certifications like Azure which is nearly all practical (like my ECSA was) and you build out an environment in a virtual lab. Then microsoft grades your lab at the end. Obviously a test like that proves you have competency.
Finally, you have some gimme certs that require very little studying, but provide high value in employment searches like AWS CCP or CSSK. Both highly sought after, but fairly little effort to obtain. CCSK was definitely a good one even though it was not alot of material and I respect it.
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@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
That's just a bad choice to stay in a strong economy. If you want put in 120% effort for your employer and get virtually zero out of it, that's on you and you alone.
I've been looking since they asked me to come in when I was on parental leave. The problem is that I need a remote position, and I haven't had much luck there yet.
I've been seriously thinking about my own startup.
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@Dashrender said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Many of the sysadmin jobs I've been applying for want repo links. So when you have a family, and a job where sometimes you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
And then there's the homework assignments, one job had me submit an architecture design even before I had an interview with the recruiter.
huh - did you send them an bill? That does seem unreasonable - you produced work, you should be compensated... who's to say they aren't just using you for free architecture design?
Practical homework assignments are fairly common and to me seems to be a better sign of a company than those links to coding tests where it takes forever to understand the question and that there are study guides for. I've never had a practical assignment before any interview before though.
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@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Florida_man said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@flaxking said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
you have to work 100 hour weeks - and that doesn't let you open source your configuration as code, you have to pick your battles.
That's just a bad choice to stay in a strong economy. If you want put in 120% effort for your employer and get virtually zero out of it, that's on you and you alone.
I've been looking since they asked me to come in when I was on parental leave. The problem is that I need a remote position, and I haven't had much luck there yet.
I've been seriously thinking about my own startup.
Doing a startup of your own is incredibly rewarding and insanely hard.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Doing a startup of your own is incredibly rewarding and insanely hard.
...and wouldn't trade the experience for anything!
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@JasGot We took the plunge with our own May 2003. Heh, Married in 2002, the business in May 2003, kid started sometime a month or so later born on 04, and then our first house in 2004 or 05.
The catch with being self-employed is the difficulty in getting loans and mortgages. At least, up here in Canada it's a pint of blood, the first born, and signing off on the second if need be.
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Started the blog in 2007 because I just could not keep track of all of the stuff I was learning. It was more for me than anything at that point.
Wrote my first exam on Small Business Server 2008 sometime in 2009 and passed much to my surprise. No studying, just working with the product inside and out.
Wrote my first, and only book, on SBS 2008. An 800 page tome that nearly burned me out.
The Microsoft MVP came in 2009.
The Microsoft Small Business Specialist designation came in late 2009 with most of our clients responding with, "So, our rates going up?" Yup.
I wrote and passed the Small Business Server 2011 exam.
That was the last exam I've written.
We're usually bleeding edge with everything we do, so when the exams do come up we're already moving into the next product version.
Oh, I've done a few sessions in Redmond on the exam creation team. That was fun.
I'm fortunate that I get paid to do what I love.
Oh, and I get to play.
AMD EPYC Rome single socket 2U 12x LFF platform. We have two of them and a pair of 7502 CPUs provided to us by AMD. RAM, M.2 PCIe AiC adapters, TPMs, and some other bits and pieces showed up today.Aim is to be one of the first to Azure Stack HCI certify a native Rome platform.
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@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
The catch with being self-employed is the difficulty in getting loans and mortgages. At least, up here in Canada it's a pint of blood, the first born, and signing off on the second if need be.
In the US you incorporate. Then you aren't self employed, you are an employee of a company in which you invest.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
The catch with being self-employed is the difficulty in getting loans and mortgages. At least, up here in Canada it's a pint of blood, the first born, and signing off on the second if need be.
In the US you incorporate. Then you aren't self employed, you are an employee of a company in which you invest.
It's the same in Canada. MPECS Inc. It's incorporated.
The banks, however, don't look at it that way even though we get T4s (personal income statements) at the end of the year from the company.
We're on the hook for everything (wife & I are 50/50).
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@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
The banks, however, don't look at it that way even though we get T4s (personal income statements) at the end of the year from the company.
In the US, there is no way for a bank to know. The banks aren't given access to stock records. Corporations are private in the US, stock records are secret until subpoenaed by a court.
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What certification would you suggest for IT management in terms of people and projects?
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@Jimmy9008 said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
What certification would you suggest for IT management in terms of people and projects?
For project work, PMP. Project Management Professional. From a reputable source of course.
A thorough understanding of project work by experience would also be an asset.
Experience with the products brings a type of knowledge, understanding, and wisdom to bring about a successful conclusion to a project whether $25K or $25M.
Boots on the ground experience.
Oh, and a sense of tact. I don't have that so can be difficult in larger projects. Plus, I'm the humblest guy I know.
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@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Oh, and a sense of tact. I don't have that so can be difficult in larger projects. Plus, I'm the humblest guy I know.
Aww, so we should start calling you @JaredBusch then?
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@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@Jimmy9008 said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
What certification would you suggest for IT management in terms of people and projects?
For project work, PMP. Project Management Professional. From a reputable source of course.
A thorough understanding of project work by experience would also be an asset.
Experience with the products brings a type of knowledge, understanding, and wisdom to bring about a successful conclusion to a project whether $25K or $25M.
Boots on the ground experience.
Oh, and a sense of tact. I don't have that so can be difficult in larger projects. Plus, I'm the humblest guy I know.
Ok, so how about on purely people management side? IT folks can usually be technical, but not good managers. What course or program can core management competencies be gained? Other than of course time and experience?
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@Jimmy9008 Parenthood 500 and above level courses.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
@PhlipElder said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Parenthood 500
Ha!
Seriously though.
Questions to ask those we work with and to look at ourselves:- Am I a dyck to work with?
- What can I improve? Constructive criticism please.
- Do I give someone the benefit of the doubt? Especially if it's "third party" pointing it out?
- Do I compliment/acknowledge the folks around me for the work they do?
- Do I take the time to ask folks how they are doing? Genuine ... not fly-by questioning.
- Am I able to listen?
- Am I able to pick the right hill to die on but mostly walk away?
I'm not "nice". I know my boundaries and when someone has crossed them. I expect folks to respect them as do I to theirs. I don't play well with predators, back-biters, and gossips.
I also know that someone that takes credit for my work is also going to burn when they can't answer to the details so I wait for it. That trust bridge is only burnt once.
The above doesn't come in a course .Though, I'm sure I could generate our retirement fund putting one together.
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I have a friend who is a manager of a technical team (programmers, not IT). He's not a programmer, but did come from IT - he's learned Lean Six Sigma... that seems to be doing him well. He's in the 180Ks doing that in the midwest - could easily be much higher on a coast.
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@Jimmy9008 said in Why IT certifications are worth more than you think...:
Ok, so how about on purely people management side? IT folks can usually be technical, but not good managers. What course or program can core management competencies be gained? Other than of course time and experience?
Management is a completely different skill set. Mostly it's something that you just have to be good at. Can you teach things that are outside of your natural skill set? Yes. But generally it is painful on both sides and excelling is difficult.
Management far more than IT can benefit from general education. University, general ed. Understanding business, broad general knowledge, psychology classes, etc.
But having done a masters and phd level work in management... I can tell you that 99% of my management skills and knowledge came from just my own reading, working in fast food, hotels, and other random management jobs. Management is more empathy than anything.
