Looking For Alternate IT roles
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Just because you use git doesnt make you a developer lol.
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Companies may ask you to wear multiple hats, but everything else is outside the devops role.
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
I would suspect you're writing software @Obsolesce . I am constantly engineering automation and tooling for facilitating the build, test, deployment, and reliabilty of software. Whether that is writing a Lambda, creating a Step Function State Machine, or rearchitecting an existing workload for the Cloud.
It's all code, and it is all stored in a source repository, and developed using the same principles and engineering practice that would go into developing any other application/piece of software.
No, I'm not writing any software. I'm not writing any applications.
@Obsolesce said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
@Obsolesce If you're doing DevOps and you're not engineering software, aren't you just doing Ops then?
edit:
Literally zero software engineering, zero software programming. I am currently spending a lot of time in Azure DevOps, as well as Azure Automation and other Azure serverless technologies. I really like Azure Functions a lot and have quite a bit in there. I started moving a lot of Azure Automation scripts to Functions with a lot of better than expected results. -
So using python to architect and write a serverless application doesn't count as software engineering? Developing, testing, and deploying custom resources for CloudFormation doesn't count as Software Engineering?
^That work literally follows the same steps and workflow as developing a microservice.
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
So using python to architect and write a serverless application doesn't count as software engineering? Developing, testing, and deploying custom resources for CloudFormation doesn't count as Software Engineering?
^That work literally follows the same steps and workflow as developing a microservice.
Nope
That is again infrastructure as code. Python is used by damn near every Linux admin
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
So using python to architect and write a serverless application
Define application?
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Cloudformation is just a json files. Nearly every system admin deals with json files
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@IRJ said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
Cloudformation is just a json files. Nearly every system admin deals with json files
...not because we like json.
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One of the most recent examples was a python-based serverless application composed of multiple lambdas that interfaced with AWS Organizations to provide automation around creating, configuring, and deploying AWS accounts and automated governance. It is exposed to end users through a self-service portal as a Service Catalog Product.
All written in python, deployed and managed via SAM templates, and maintained via a CI/CD pipeline.
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@IRJ said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
@scottalanmiller said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
@IRJ said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
DevOps = Cross between IT admin and Engineer. It is almost solely scripting and command line based, which makes it awesome IMO.
Yeah, DevOps makes it almost impossible to keep your hats separate because you kind of role the two together.
Also DevOps roles never deal with users. Some people may or may not like that
Not desktop users. But they will often deal with software dev users or other IT departments as users.
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And yes, CloudFormation is IAC via JSON or YAML templates. It does have more dynamic aspects that allow you to code logic into the provisioning of resources though.
(Intrinsic Functions, Mappings, Conditions, Imports/Exports)
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
And yes, CloudFormation is IAC via JSON or YAML templates. It does have more dynamic aspects that allow you to code logic into the provisioning of resources though.
(Intrinsic Functions, Mappings, Conditions, Imports/Exports)
Yeah I mean I use terraform and have used cloudformation as well. To me it's still all infrastructure as code
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And developing a Custom Resource for Cloudformation usually involves Software Engineering, as it is either backed by a Lambda function, Application, or considerably complex architectures triggered via SNS.
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
And developing a Custom Resource for Cloudformation usually involves Software Engineering, as it is either backed by a Lambda function, Application, or considerably complex architectures triggered via SNS.
Microsoft has a good definition of IaC and everything you mentioned falls under it. Obviously you know your stuff, I think we are just using a different definition.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/learn/what-is-infrastructure-as-code
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@IRJ The newest approach that AWS is starting to push is a declaritive language that generates CloudFormation from code.
The Cloud Development Kit (CDK)
It is conceptually similar to stacker, but a bit more complex. It can reduce template size by up to 70%, and allows you to do conditional provisioning of resources without the added complexity of nested conditions and inflated parameter hell.
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@IRJ I'm just saying don't sell yourselves short. A lot of "DevOps" engineers that consider themselves as having only an Infrastructure skillset are practiced Software Engineers. Its something that almost happens organically as a result of being put into the role.
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
One of the most recent examples was a python-based serverless application composed of multiple lambdas that interfaced with AWS Organizations to provide automation around creating, configuring, and deploying AWS accounts and automated governance. It is exposed to end users through a self-service portal as a Service Catalog Product.
All written in python, deployed and managed via SAM templates, and maintained via a CI/CD pipeline.
This is (IT-related) automation (DevOps), not software development/engineering/programming.
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
@IRJ I'm just saying don't sell yourselves short. A lot of "DevOps" engineers that consider themselves as having only an Infrastructure skillset are practiced Software Engineers. Its something that almost happens organically as a result of being put into the role.
I think you, myself, and @Obsolesce have an advantage because we have system admin backgrounds. IMO that is more valuable than development experience for DevOps
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@IRJ Absolutely. I mean, blending the skillsets is hard approaching the role from either perspective, but understanding how software runs on infrastructure is super important; especially as more and more automation and code replaces the traditional admin duties going forward.
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@RamblingBiped said in Looking For Alternate IT roles:
@IRJ I'm just saying don't sell yourselves short. A lot of "DevOps" engineers that consider themselves as having only an Infrastructure skillset are practiced Software Engineers. Its something that almost happens organically as a result of being put into the role.
Yes this is a good point.
There are two sides:
- Moving into devops from a Software Engineering background
- Moving into devops from an IT Engineering/Administration/Operations background
Both are equal, overlap, and some things do not overlap. A DevOps person from a Software Engineering may ALSO do software engineering, but that doesn't mean a DevOps person from an IT background does.
