"Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department
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@scottalanmiller said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
The SQL thing isn't the local PD's fault...they are stuck with it as they have to use what the HWY Patrol gives them to use. Boggles my mind though that THP's developers are still forcing SQL 2005 though.
Nothing surprising, as long as the clients accept it, no logical reason to change it. The fault goes to those choosing the product and not pressuring the devs to fix it.
Agreed. We have very little voice in the matter as our PD is one step removed from the actual client (THP), who is stuck supporting a whole states worth of agencies. I'm hoping the looming W7 EOL is going to force THP to start pressuring the developers of this software to step up. It's going to be UGLY though, as SQL 2005 will have to be upgraded on EVERY PC at EVERY agency in the state who uses the software, pretty much all at once. I'm sure that challenge is actually a huge part of the problem, as a LOT of the smaller agencies just don't have IT staffing to support a quick rollout of new software at all (the PD is just ONE department I support, along with Fire, Treasury, Court, Mayor's Office, Codes, Event Center, and Parks & Rec), let alone someone who could, oh, I dunno, just rollout a fresh W10 image with the new software.
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@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
I'm hoping the looming W7 EOL is going to force THP to start pressuring the developers of this software to step up
that would make no sense. They already have no support. SQL Server 2005 went out of support in 2016. So it's been an unsupported, unpatched system for years already. So Windows 7 also going out of support would have no effect if support is already deemed of no importance.
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We often talk about "lacking support" as being the end all of decision making. But the reality is, most small businesses and governments actually pay no attention to if things are supported or not, and never define "supported". It's simply not a thing that they care about in reality.
By definition, because it uses SQL Server 2005, the application can't be a supported app. For something to logically be supported, its whole stack has to be. So therefore, the app itself doesn't have support. And the agencies are okay with that.
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@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
I'm sure that challenge is actually a huge part of the problem, as a LOT of the smaller agencies just don't have IT staffing to support a quick rollout of new software at all (the PD is just ONE department I support, along with Fire, Treasury, Court, Mayor's Office, Codes, Event Center, and Parks & Rec), let alone someone who could, oh, I dunno, just rollout a fresh W10 image with the new software.
There are companies that handle that kind of stuff
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@scottalanmiller said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
I'm hoping the looming W7 EOL is going to force THP to start pressuring the developers of this software to step up
that would make no sense. They already have no support. SQL Server 2005 went out of support in 2016. So it's been an unsupported, unpatched system for years already. So Windows 7 also going out of support would have no effect if support is already deemed of no importance.
Only change would be in the amount of complaining coming from the agencies who are trying to install the software on new machines running Windows 10. In fact, THP finally pulled the very broken installer download (would not install at all on W10) from their support page, and provide a working software install (actually, an OLDER install file) via a file transfer over a screen sharing session :pensive_face: for manual installs. Takes about two hours to transfer across. Of course, I did that once with them, and saved the installer for all the subsequent installs. Once it installs, you have to launch it 3x times for it to run through a series of upgrades to get current.
So really, the pressure on THP's end would come from the fact that installs now cost them a lot in extra tech support calls with agencies needing help due to how manual the install process has become (THP has a support department that is stuck helping agencies with this software...what a miserable job that would be!).
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@scottalanmiller said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
There are companies that handle that kind of stuff
Yup...and in government, for the most part, low bid wins, so unfortunately the companies that wind up handling it are, well, not always great. That's not so much the fault of the bidding process, as the fact that the ones creating the requirements for the bidding don't understand enough about the "product" to be specific enough in their requirements to weed out bad MSP's.
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@scottalanmiller said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
We often talk about "lacking support" as being the end all of decision making. But the reality is, most small businesses and governments actually pay no attention to if things are supported or not, and never define "supported". It's simply not a thing that they care about in reality.
By definition, because it uses SQL Server 2005, the application can't be a supported app. For something to logically be supported, its whole stack has to be. So therefore, the app itself doesn't have support. And the agencies are okay with that.
Well, the agencies are stuck with it, as they are forced to use the tools the THP provides (OK, not entirely, but this software is "free", and the alternatives are not). And that leaves THP stuck being the ones providing support for old, broken software that should have been replaced years ago.
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@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
Yup...and in government, for the most part, low bid wins,
Even if they don't do the job. Because it's not a bid for the work, just a bid for getting paid.
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@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
That's not so much the fault of the bidding process,
Actually it is. Bidding is designed specifically to not get good work done. It's why no real business or sensible person ever does it for creative work, makes no sense and guarantees that the results can't be good. Bidding itself is definitely a serious flaw.
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@CharlesHTN said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
as the fact that the ones creating the requirements for the bidding don't understand enough about the "product" to be specific enough in their requirements to weed out bad MSP's.
The only people who CAN create a real bid are the people who would do the work, hence why the bidding process is flawed. The ability to scope a bid requires the ultimate ability to do the work. So bidding can't work, because you could do the work more easily than making a good bid.
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@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
You'd think that running software 1.5 decades old and bypassing modern Win10 security measures is anything but secure...
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@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
Idk who is worse the FD or the PD
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@wirestyle22 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
Idk who is worse the FD or the PD
It's all government. :crying_face:
Look at the gap between protecting public information and defense information. When it comes to defense information, they pay billions of dollars for information security. When it comes to protecting tax payer's services that affect the tax payer on a daily basis, they have the absolute worst security practice possible.
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@IRJ said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@wirestyle22 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
Idk who is worse the FD or the PD
It's all government. :crying_face:
Look at the gap between protecting public information and defense information. When it comes to defense information, they pay billions of dollars for information security. When it comes to protecting tax payer's services that affect the tax payer on a daily basis, they have the absolute worst security practice possible.
Well from an FD POV, what is there that they need to protect?
From a PD POV - the information they have in general should mostly be a matter of public record, so keeping it from hackers seems slightly unnecessary - that said, you still don't want hackers using the resources for non PD functions.
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@Dashrender said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@IRJ said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@wirestyle22 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
Idk who is worse the FD or the PD
It's all government. :crying_face:
Look at the gap between protecting public information and defense information. When it comes to defense information, they pay billions of dollars for information security. When it comes to protecting tax payer's services that affect the tax payer on a daily basis, they have the absolute worst security practice possible.
Well from an FD POV, what is there that they need to protect?
From a PD POV - the information they have in general should mostly be a matter of public record, so keeping it from hackers seems slightly unnecessary - that said, you still don't want hackers using the resources for non PD functions.
So everyone not in healthcare, finance, PCI, or defense doesnt need to protect their workstations, applications, and servers? That is news to me.
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@IRJ said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@Dashrender said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@IRJ said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@wirestyle22 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
Idk who is worse the FD or the PD
It's all government. :crying_face:
Look at the gap between protecting public information and defense information. When it comes to defense information, they pay billions of dollars for information security. When it comes to protecting tax payer's services that affect the tax payer on a daily basis, they have the absolute worst security practice possible.
Well from an FD POV, what is there that they need to protect?
From a PD POV - the information they have in general should mostly be a matter of public record, so keeping it from hackers seems slightly unnecessary - that said, you still don't want hackers using the resources for non PD functions.
So everyone not in healthcare, finance, PCI, or defense doesnt need to protect their workstations, applications, and servers? That is news to me.
Well, the military is putting weapons systems online with no security, do you expect a state or local police department to be more competent?
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@IRJ said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@Dashrender said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@IRJ said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@wirestyle22 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
@DustinB3403 said in "Upgrading" a laptop for the Police Department:
PD and modern don't mix because of their "security standards".
Idk who is worse the FD or the PD
It's all government. :crying_face:
Look at the gap between protecting public information and defense information. When it comes to defense information, they pay billions of dollars for information security. When it comes to protecting tax payer's services that affect the tax payer on a daily basis, they have the absolute worst security practice possible.
Well from an FD POV, what is there that they need to protect?
From a PD POV - the information they have in general should mostly be a matter of public record, so keeping it from hackers seems slightly unnecessary - that said, you still don't want hackers using the resources for non PD functions.
So everyone not in healthcare, finance, PCI, or defense doesnt need to protect their workstations, applications, and servers? That is news to me.
That is not what I said at all.
