Manage KVM through Cockpit
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Another reply and I will start my KVM Backup software project.
But let go us back a step to reality, do we really want Backup component with KVM with enterprise features ?
How about nice web GUI for saltstack, without dealing with terminal all the time.Why we are IT pros then if we want everything easy, whats the point if we can just pour alot of money for product and do a couple of clicks and make things easier for us but eventually the company will suffer each year with this route.
We are IT pros cause we continuously learn and adapt and KVM currently is very good in being just a hypervisor , extra features like backing up VMs are work in progress (I assume) but you can either take the jump or keep it in your LAB testing and check it every once and while for latest updates.
What will happen when we keep attaching enterprise software with foss software ? either the enterprise company will release it as free version with limitations or the foss software (KVM) will stop being foss.
I dont think any company will make good backup addon/component for KVM cause it is free and the users using it are FOSS folks, and we like it that way and there are little people that will pay for it, you are kinda of expected that since you went the KVM route that you know your stuff and you will create your own backup strategy, I am sure amazon and google compute engine have created this already then shifted to KVM, so it can be done.
Let us pay respect of how easy it become and stable KVM is, especially considering how it was. Now with cockpit and virt-manager it is piece of cake for me, much easier that Hyper-V IMO, back in the days just installing KVM was difficult, and you needed to use freikn command line and text editor to create VM.
So lets just wait for FOSS solutions, I am sure in the next years we will see more cockpit options for KVM, but for now KVM rocks (especially for SMB) and beats anything out of the water (mdadm support) without any limitations. sadly it is the word of mouth that harms it, people that want very limited free ESXi or hyper-V package that relies on multiple other 3rd party solutions to make it acceptable.
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@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller "there is no backup API or CBT on KVM" these are big items to not have out of the gate.
Yes there is. It's all done through QMP.
Any open source and free KVM backup software that uses this? Or is it something you have to dick around with for weeks to get anywhere with it?
I haven't looked. But not existing and not leveraged are two completely different things.
Blame the person I quoted, don't get pissy with me if Scott is stating incorrect information.
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@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Change Block Tracking is native to QEMU. In theory, you can just script a backup using it.
But no one would do this, no one. Pretty much everyone else is just going to go with a "package deal".
This is like going out and purchasing phone, internet and TV all separately rather than as a bundle buy.
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@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Change Block Tracking is native to QEMU. In theory, you can just script a backup using it.
But no one would do this, no one. Pretty much everyone else is just going to go with a "package deal".
This is like going out and purchasing phone, internet and TV all separately rather than as a bundle buy.
Uh what are you talking about? This is how most things are done. It's an API call with a JSON payload. There is 0 difference between this and Elasticsearch using an API call to do snapshots.
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@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Change Block Tracking is native to QEMU. In theory, you can just script a backup using it.
But no one would do this, no one. Pretty much everyone else is just going to go with a "package deal".
This is like going out and purchasing phone, internet and TV all separately rather than as a bundle buy.
Uh what are you talking about? This is how most things are done. It's an API call with a JSON payload. There is 0 difference between this and Elasticsearch using an API call to do snapshots.
The point he failed to make was that most people don’t know how to do this, they will simply buy a package.
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@emad-r said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Why we are IT pros then if we want everything easy, whats the point if we can just pour alot of money for product and do a couple of clicks and make things easier for us but eventually the company will suffer each year with this route.
It has nothing to do with easy. It is about right for the business. I can spend hundreds of hours coming up with my own solution, and cost the company $10k or more in lost wages.
Or I can buy Veeam for KVM (I wish) for $2k and move on.
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@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Change Block Tracking is native to QEMU. In theory, you can just script a backup using it.
But no one would do this, no one. Pretty much everyone else is just going to go with a "package deal".
This is like going out and purchasing phone, internet and TV all separately rather than as a bundle buy.
Uh what are you talking about? This is how most things are done. It's an API call with a JSON payload. There is 0 difference between this and Elasticsearch using an API call to do snapshots.
The point he failed to make was that most people don’t know how to do this, they will simply buy a package.
This is completely true, and now I feel bad for having made the assumption that people would understand what I meant. .
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@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
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@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
Since when?
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@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Change Block Tracking is native to QEMU. In theory, you can just script a backup using it.
But no one would do this, no one. Pretty much everyone else is just going to go with a "package deal".
This is like going out and purchasing phone, internet and TV all separately rather than as a bundle buy.
Sure, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Buying your way out of lack of skills is costly in nearly all cases, because it doesn't come up just once. If your point is that "most IT people are unskilled and/or lazy", sure. But that "most people" in any field aren't good at their jobs has no bearing on what is and isn't good decision making, it just implies that bad hiring is part of their bad decision process.
Are there cases where using a more complex tool that is low cost is more expensive than using an expensive tool that is quick and easy to implement makes business sense? Absolutely. Is it as common as people promote to avoid looking into solutions or doing work? Hell no.
This is just like the Linux vs. Windows argument. Is Linux more costly to support? Heck no, it's far less. But people just see dollar signs on Windows, know it from marketing, and assume it must be so easy and simple that whatever it costs, is justified from some made up "easy" button it comes with. But we know this assumption is totally untrue.
Is using KVM's native backup so hard that it pays to just buy something else? Maybe. But you can't use the logic that you did to get there. You need to actually look at it, look at the skills needed, compare the costs. If this is a one time deployment for a small shop, probably it's a bit much - but if they have IT skills likely it is close. If you are an MSP doing this over and over again, though, or a large shop with lots of workloads, I bet you find that the native approach saves a fortune very, very quickly.
But it's never a simple thing and as is never based on what "people will do". Good advice, good decision making, never takes into account whether or not people will listen to the results of research. That makes no sense. That's like Google Maps giving you directions based on "where you will turn anyway" and ignoring the requested destination!
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@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
Since when?
Since the person who made up that insane rule was removed from the site.
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Hese's the link. She said it was planned for this year.
https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2090360-unitrends-backup-replication-to-kvm-google-cloud
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@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
Since when?
Since the person who made up that insane rule was removed from the site.
Would that insane person be Dave?
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@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
Since when?
Since the person who made up that insane rule was removed from the site.
Would that insane person be Dave?
Who is Dave?
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@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
Since when?
Since the person who made up that insane rule was removed from the site.
Would that insane person be Dave?
Who is Dave?
Nvm.
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@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@dustinb3403 said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@scottalanmiller said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@stacksofplates said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@jaredbusch said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
@obsolesce said in Manage KVM through Cockpit:
Any open source and free KVM backup software
FOSS is not a requirement to me.
If there was a robust package I could use to get agentless and CBT and file level restore on KVM, I will buy it, if it is reasonable.
There was a thread on the other site about Unitrends having agentless on it sometime this year. Ill have to see if I can find it.
But I cannot even install Unitrends on Hyper-V server.............
Are we allowed to post links from there?
Yes
Since when?
Since the person who made up that insane rule was removed from the site.
Would that insane person be Dave?
Who is Dave?
Nvm.
Oh, Dave from over there? I've never heard him called Dave before. Sorry, I knew it was a joke but couldn't figure out what the joke was.
