Student Loan Forgiveness Rant
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@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@penguinwrangler said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@momurda said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
That isnt how it works from @PenguinWrangler description.
The forgiveness will be taxed as income, probably at the rate bonuses/lottery income, much higher than regular income unless he is making tons of money(he isnt if working for feds).
He is essentially an indentured servant to the federal government for the next decade.Also, people saying the government shouldnt be spending money on education, LOL.
It should be the highest expenditure of the federal government and local governments.
It should dwarf the War Department's budget.Spending on education is fine, spending to remove debt that someone agreed to is that individual persons responsibility. Not the public's responsibility.
I understand what you are saying. I get where you are coming from. I have set myself and family up to have my loans paid off in the next 5 to 7 years. Without the forgiveness. I have been eating a lot of ramen and pb&j for lunch. We have been watching our money closely. Whether or not the government should do this is one thing. I would be stupid not to take it though when it is available to me.
My stance isn't with you. It's with the system, how it's rigged and royally helping 1 and screwing over 1000.
You said your self that this 63K debt is tax-free. That's insane.
Depends on which tax schedule you use.
The tax on 63K at long-term capital gains rate (it's a long-term payback, and it's not THAT much money) is 12% or ~7.56K note a huge amount.Also, lots of stuff is tax-free. I didn't pay taxes on the money I put into my 401K. That's $5940 (or $11,880 joint filed, as I'm maxing out my wife's account) worth of taxes I'm not paying every year! The earnings in my Roth IRA are tax-free (I put in 11K last year, and the 8% gains for the year on it are tax-free!)
Semantics here.... but assuming traditional 401k, that's tax-deferred not free. On the Roth side though you are correct earnings are tax free.
The money you put into a Roth IRA is free, not the earnings. If you put in a ROTH IRA 10,000 and earnn 2,000 the 10,000 is tax free because, you have already paid taxes on that 10,000. The 2,000 it earned can be taxed. I have been checking on what to do with my 401K
No you're confused. In a Roth scenario, your contributions are after-tax, meaning you would put the $10,000 dollars in after you've already paid taxes on it. Whatever you earn from investing that $10,000, in your example $2,000, would then be dispersed tax-free as long as you meet the requirements.
In a Roth scenario, all money is put in after you've paid taxes on it, but money is taken out tax-free, meaning no double taxation and no tax on earnings.
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What about offering this to doctors to practice in rural areas? Which I believe they do have a program for. Doctors out of med school can't practice in rural areas because of how much Med school costs and how much it costs to pay it back. This is how many rural areas and rural hospitals get doctors. There is already a shortage in rural areas.
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@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
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@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Or raising taxes on everyone to allow gov't employees to be paid comparable wages to privately employed. Still sucks lol
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@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
If government continues to pay at LEAST 20% below the free market, we get rid of their pension systems (largely being done at the city and state level) and they can't offer things like loan forgiveness in what world do we not end up with the government full of the dumbest workers?
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@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
Well, in this case, they are. He's paying it through a signing bonus. So while SOME student debt forgiveness might be a problem because it is not given fairly, that doesn't apply here where it is a signing bonus.
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@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Or raising taxes on everyone to allow gov't employees to be paid comparable wages to privately employed. Still sucks lol
"I'm going to run on a platform of raising taxes to pay government workers more" - Said no one ever.
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@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
If government continues to pay at LEAST 20% below the free market, we get rid of their pension systems (largely being done at the city and state level) and they can't offer things like loan forgiveness in what world do we not end up with the government full of the dumbest workers?
We already have one of the dumbest leaders of all time, and it's becoming more apparent that the government is already full of the dullest doorknobs the country has to offer.
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@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Or raising taxes on everyone to allow gov't employees to be paid comparable wages to privately employed. Still sucks lol
"I'm going to run on a platform of raising taxes to pay government workers more" - Said no one ever.
Besides congress, they seem to say this ever year. . . for their own salaries.
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@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
Well, in this case, they are. He's paying it through a signing bonus. So while SOME student debt forgiveness might be a problem because it is not given fairly, that doesn't apply here where it is a signing bonus.
Next up the War on relocation bonuses.
PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE LESS STUFF -
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
Well, in this case, they are. He's paying it through a signing bonus. So while SOME student debt forgiveness might be a problem because it is not given fairly, that doesn't apply here where it is a signing bonus.
$63K is way more than I ever had in student loans.
I want a $63K gift. Do all of you mind giving me a lot of money for my inability to pay my loans? (@PenguinWrangler again just using you as an example as this is a rampant issue, not hating on you)
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If these student loans were for a community college, I could see a benefit like this existing since community college is already funded by tax payers.
But this amount of debt, is well outside of the community price range.
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Just curious @DustinB3403 how you feel about scholarships given prior to attending college, even without knowing if that individual will get a "meaningful" degree. Or how you feel about athletic scholarships that pay for school just because of a skill that rarely translates to a job down the road.
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@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
Well, in this case, they are. He's paying it through a signing bonus. So while SOME student debt forgiveness might be a problem because it is not given fairly, that doesn't apply here where it is a signing bonus.
$63K is way more than I ever had in student loans.
I want a $63K gift. Do all of you mind giving me a lot of money for my inability to pay my loans? (@PenguinWrangler again just using you as an example as this is a rampant issue, not hating on you)
I understand your point of view. I have worked hard so I can be at a point that with or without this, my loans will be paid off. I am sorry but I am damn good at my job, and the public defenders office could really use me. This is what is throwing that job into the yes column after my current work offered me a $17,000 a year raise to stay, about $6,000 more than the government job.
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@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Just curious @DustinB3403 how you feel about scholarships given prior to attending college, even without knowing if that individual will get a "meaningful" degree. Or how you feel about athletic scholarships that pay for school just because of a skill that rarely translates to a job down the road.
Scholarships are based on proven metrics, I don't have an issue here in most cases. I've also never received any.
Grades, athletic performance etc etc. In the public space, say community college giving an athletic scholarship I think is worthless and a waste of resources.
Academic scholarships I see as worthwhile and worth the investment.
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@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
I want a $63K gift.
I think you're missing one of the primary requirements mentioned above. Unless I misunderstood what @anthonyh said, they have to continue making payments on their student loans for 10 years, THEN once the 10 years is up, the government would forgive the remaining balance on the loan. From the sounds of it, after the 10 years the entire balance is nearly paid anyway. So maybe they'll actually get a couple thousand dollars? Did I completely misunderstand this or what?
edit: Unless you have a huge balance on your loans and take a job where your income based payments are so low they'd barely touch the balance after 10 years.... But this doesn't sound like the case here.. He said after 5 years he would have the loans paid off anyway, so he wont be receiving any benefits in this regard.
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@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@scottalanmiller said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@storageninja said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
@zachary715 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
HIs whole argument here is that it's the public sector which is offering this benefit with "our" tax dollars. I think he's fine with private businesses doing this same matter because they aren't operating with a $20trillion and growing debt with no solution in sight
The alternatives are raising salaries a bunch for government roles (unpopular), or only historically rich, or the very stupid will end up working in government as the private sector absorbs everyone with debt who's smart. All of these options suck
Why are those the only options?
Why not just make people pay their bill, period?
Well, in this case, they are. He's paying it through a signing bonus. So while SOME student debt forgiveness might be a problem because it is not given fairly, that doesn't apply here where it is a signing bonus.
$63K is way more than I ever had in student loans.
I want a $63K gift. Do all of you mind giving me a lot of money for my inability to pay my loans? (@PenguinWrangler again just using you as an example as this is a rampant issue, not hating on you)
If you think people shouldn't take out loans they can't pay then the schools should be on the hook for the students not paying.
Blaming the person taking out a loan (Who's not a sovereign state) is dumb. -
@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
I want a $63K gift. Do all of you mind giving me a lot of money for my inability to pay my loans? (@PenguinWrangler again just using you as an example as this is a rampant issue, not hating on you)
So basically what you're saying is that the point is still going over your head. This isn't a gift. It's a signing bonus/incentive/income (untaxed)/fringe benefit/whatever you want to call it. He is literally working to pay off his debt. A gift would be if he (and other like him) were just given the money with no expectation of employment.
But sure to use your analogy, I'll give you a 64K$ gift if you promise to work for me at 20% less then average wage for the next 10 years, I won't release the funds until you've payed me for 10 years straight, while working for me, and then I'll just release whatever is left over to you. Sound good?
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@coliver said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
So basically what you're saying is that the point is still going over your head. This isn't a gift. It's a signing bonus/incentive/income (untaxed)/fringe benefit/whatever you want to call it. He is literally working to pay off his debt. A gift would be if he (and other like him) were just given the money with no expectation of employment.
Signing Bonuses (especially for education) often have a clawback (If you don't stay for xxx amount of time you have to give it back).
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@dustinb3403 said in Student Loan Forgiveness Rant:
Screw the kids, Darwinism needs a leg up here.
This right here.... I think we've reached Poe's law.
