Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So is the horse before the cart? Or not? Are people corrupt and unavoidably biased when they use affiliates, or can be be pure and objective but still use the affiliate as a means of extra payment or bonus?
Again... corruption is around the disclosure, not the affiliate program.
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Why would it have to be disclosed?
A store doesn't disclose profit.
You don't know what your Happy Meal cost McDonald's to produce.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
It is correct, we don't know each other, you don't really "know" the consultant you just hired. So do you ask them before any work is done, "if you are on commissions or use affiliates, I can't work with you?"
It's good to ask, but it is required that they tell whether someone asks or not in a situation where it applies.
For example, what if I resold Netgear equipment. I do consulting and I recommend Dell equipment. I need not disclose that I had a bias away from Dell. I probably should, but I don't have to. But if I consult and recommend Netgear, I must disclose that I'm getting paid to make that recommendation. I can explain why I'm not overly biased by that, but I must tell them, every time.
Disclaimer: I do NOT sell Netgear. It's an example.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
It's the same thing, you don't know them, so find out. Or DON'T find out, and put blind trust that they are objective.
Caveat Emptor is great life advice, but very bad for a consultant to use as their own motto. This suggests the idea that the consultant in question is the enemy of his clients and out to get them, rather than doing their job and working for them. Of course, clients SHOULD question everything and audit their consultants. But consultants should also make customers not have to.
Don't be the consultant that proves why the customer should have been wary. Be the one that rewards their trust.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
It is correct, we don't know each other, you don't really "know" the consultant you just hired. So do you ask them before any work is done, "if you are on commissions or use affiliates, I can't work with you?"
It's good to ask, but it is required that they tell whether someone asks or not in a situation where it applies.
For example, what if I resold Netgear equipment. I do consulting and I recommend Dell equipment. I need not disclose that I had a bias away from Dell. I probably should, but I don't have to. But if I consult and recommend Netgear, I must disclose that I'm getting paid to make that recommendation. I can explain why I'm not overly biased by that, but I must tell them, every time.
Disclaimer: I do NOT sell Netgear. It's an example.
But, a consultant, you'd expect to be looking at the wide range of everything.
A VAR (that I trust), I'd expect to have a great knowledge of things they support for whatever reason (probably money) and always recommend those things.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@IRJ said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
They have zero say in the final analysis. I don't send them the estimates and invoices, they don't send me anything. If their product happens to be the right solution, then a bonus is there.
Here's a question - Why do you deserve the bonus? You did a job, you were paid for that job - consulting fee. Why do you deserve a bonus for doing that job? Why doesn't the client deserve a discount instead?
Excellent question.
In previous jobs for some residential clients or non-profits I literally gave them extra discount for using the affiliates.
Don't misunderstand me, I literally have 3 affiliates to my name. Amazon, InMotion, and I think VULTR. I signed up BECAUSE I love them, not because of wanting the most kickbacks. I only think of it as free money. But obviously this raises a lot of ethical questions for people.
Again, this isn't about you - this is more - would some stranger think you're taking advantage of them... if they paid you $50 for an opinion, and if they buy a product on your opinion list you get affiliate kickback money - will they be OK with that? it's about what the other guy thinks.. not what you think.
Hell I think the "for Dummy's" series is a horrible name the first time I saw those I thought it would tank.. what the hell do I know? Look around today, there are dozens of 'for Dummy's' books, clearly other people thought the name was catchy, and it worked.
If somebody says my service is $250, but if you buy from Amazon, I will only charge $235 sounds really sketchy to me.
Haha yeah, but surprisingly, not for some people whose eyes glaze over at the thought of saving $15 bucks. Especially a non-profit. They still use Win XP on computers taken from Good Will.
Well, I believe most non-profits are scams themselves (not all, but definitely most) so of course they like these systems. Non-profit IT will very likely ask for a kick back themselves! Super common.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Some people have moved on and just find it part of normal life. Most people actually provide their advice and knowledge for free, so using affiliates for everything is their only form of payment.
Yes, and those people are called salespeople. People who actually do it for free, don't get paid at all. People who do what you describe are sales people, it's that simple.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
Then do the even better thing - tell that customer - hey as an FYI, if you buy this chevy, chevy is sending me $20 - just an FYI. Why don't you want to do that?
Because then the client would want that.
Is the argument here just to charge more up front for consulting, and ditch the reseller fees?
If you need that money, then yes! and see - we are right back to what motivates you? Money does, because you want that $20 bucks.
Exactly, it's a motivating factor, it can't be denied. Any time it is non-motivating, we'd happily leave it behind.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
This would depend on your contracts. If you had a situation like JB mentioned.. he's hired to consult.. he gives them their options (no purchase links in those option.. just equipment lists).. then they decide to hire him to do the work.. now he can use whatever links he wants, he's now a VAR. This is still a fine line though.. especially if you assume that it's likely that they will hire you in the first place to do the end work, then you still have the potential to look shady suggesting products you get a kick back on.
Right, if you only make recommendations for products you get kickback on, what's the difference?
Not much, you are still operating as a VAR, if I'm reading the description correctly.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Some people have moved on and just find it part of normal life. Most people actually provide their advice and knowledge for free, so using affiliates for everything is their only form of payment.
Yes, and those people are called salespeople. People who actually do it for free, don't get paid at all. People who do what you describe are sales people, it's that simple.
So a sales person could be suepr technical, and really know how to implement something. But if they do that for free and only make money from the sale ... they are 100% a salesperson?
Wouldn't that be a VAR?
I consider a salesperson someone who doesn't know the product that well and is purely selling.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
I consider a salesperson someone who doesn't know the product that well and is purely selling.
Well that would be the mistake. Nothing in doing sales even remotely suggests that.
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So a sales person could be suepr technical, and really know how to implement something. But if they do that for free and only make money from the sale ... they are 100% a salesperson?
Wouldn't that be a VAR?
Correct and correct. People who are compensated through sales are salespeople. Whether they make sales by buying you a drink, showing some cleavage, knowing their product, having a low price, being in the right place at the right time or adding in some incentivized advice... they are sales people.
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@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
Probably the best idea really. But then again, if they can also hire me to implement, and one of my recommended solutions happens to be affiliate
and Scott has said that this is what NTG struggles with all the time. A huge difference there is that they have consultant, Scott, and they implementors, Gene, etc. Keeping these roles separate enables the consult to remain a bit more unbiased as long as he doesn't know who or what is an affiliate with the company.
And there IS bias. But we often mention that AND it is always disclosed (everyone knows that we offer the implementation.)
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@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
and Scott has said that this is what NTG struggles with all the time. A huge difference there is that they have consultant, Scott, and they implementors, Gene, etc. Keeping these roles separate enables the consult to remain a bit more unbiased as long as he doesn't know who or what is an affiliate with the company.
But that is ridiculous from the sales side. (If there IS a sales side.) If you were running the sales department, and 4 out of 5 recommendation is from Company ABC, why wouldn't you want to become a reseller?
You might. But then you are a reseller. We are not, we are consultants. You can't be a serious consultant AND a reseller. You can be ethical, but not good. That's just not reasonable.
Also, nothing is 80%. Nothing is even 40%. So even if the theoretical case were true, it wouldn't be what we wanted to do. But it never comes up when you really consult. Customers just aren't similar enough.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
But I don't see myself as the "reseller" part. I don't resell, I just throw out a link and tell them this is my partner link, if you want to give an extra tip. No pressure.
This is how I read this....
I don't see myself as a reseller. I just resell.
Um... what?
Sure, you are a low pressure salesman, that's great. Lots of places advertise that. Go to local computer shop and they might not pay commission. That guy doesn't care if you buy or not. Zero pressure. He might prefer if you didn't so he doesn't need to check you out because he's lazy. In this case, you directly get the commission. So you are on the upper 50% of sales people, even keeping the pressure low.
Your association of pressure to sales doesn't exist. That's not in any way a determining factor.
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said
Then do the even better thing - tell that customer - hey as an FYI, if you buy this chevy, chevy is sending me $20 - just an FYI. Why don't you want to do that?
Because then the client would want that.
Is the argument here just to charge more up front for consulting, and ditch the reseller fees?
If you need that money, then yes! and see - we are right back to what motivates you? Money does, because you want that $20 bucks.
No, the $20 is simply FREE for the taking, so why pass it up?
Because it's pay for sales.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
It is correct, we don't know each other, you don't really "know" the consultant you just hired. So do you ask them before any work is done, "if you are on commissions or use affiliates, I can't work with you?"
It's good to ask, but it is required that they tell whether someone asks or not in a situation where it applies.
For example, what if I resold Netgear equipment. I do consulting and I recommend Dell equipment. I need not disclose that I had a bias away from Dell. I probably should, but I don't have to. But if I consult and recommend Netgear, I must disclose that I'm getting paid to make that recommendation. I can explain why I'm not overly biased by that, but I must tell them, every time.
Disclaimer: I do NOT sell Netgear. It's an example.
Ok but what if you're NOT getting paid to "recommend" them? In fact you're not even getting paid to implement them. You're not getting paid if the customer goes and buys the equipment themselves and hands it over to you to install. You're not getting paid (via affiliate) to buy the product yourself and resell it and add it to the invoice (in affiliate programs you can't buy the products for yourself and resell to get the kickback).
So the ONLY way you get paid any bonus for anything is if the client buys the stuff themselves by using your affiliate/partner links, which they are free to not use.You might "think" you are biased toward Netgear but in reality there is a huge chance you'd never get the bonus if they want you to buy the stuff yourself, or they have someone else install, or they run to Costco and get the model there, or from their Staples or OfficeMax accounts, or BestBuy credit, or Newegg Business, or Amazon Prime accounts.
You have no guarantee you'll ever see that affiliate fee come pay day, so how much is it really affecting your consulting?@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
It's the same thing, you don't know them, so find out. Or DON'T find out, and put blind trust that they are objective.
Caveat Emptor is great life advice, but very bad for a consultant to use as their own motto. This suggests the idea that the consultant in question is the enemy of his clients and out to get them, rather than doing their job and working for them. Of course, clients SHOULD question everything and audit their consultants. But consultants should also make customers not have to.
Don't be the consultant that proves why the customer should have been wary. Be the one that rewards their trust.
The assumption is, again, that possibility of some affiliate bonus completely and utterly destroys all objectivity and they could no longer ever hope to provide good advice. It's a pretty big stretch.
The objection is that I don't think I am "out to get my clients" because I affiliate with some of my top recommended, nearly industry standard, vendors.@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@BRRABill said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
So a sales person could be suepr technical, and really know how to implement something. But if they do that for free and only make money from the sale ... they are 100% a salesperson?
Wouldn't that be a VAR?
Correct and correct. People who are compensated through sales are salespeople. Whether they make sales by buying you a drink, showing some cleavage, knowing their product, having a low price, being in the right place at the right time or adding in some incentivized advice... they are sales people.
The assumption here is that the commission is their SOLE income, commissioned sales is not the sole income of someone who occasionally offers affiliate links. The pressure to upsell/oversell push the highest priced stuff only makes sense when the commission if the main source of income.
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
But I don't see myself as the "reseller" part. I don't resell, I just throw out a link and tell them this is my partner link, if you want to give an extra tip. No pressure.
This is how I read this....
I don't see myself as a reseller. I just resell.
Um... what?
I read the term "resell" as that I buy the product myself and resell it to the customer, perhaps with markup. Or that I use white-label products and rebrand it, resell, with markup.
I don't see how an affiliate link is "reselling".
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@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@IRJ said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@Dashrender said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
They have zero say in the final analysis. I don't send them the estimates and invoices, they don't send me anything. If their product happens to be the right solution, then a bonus is there.
Here's a question - Why do you deserve the bonus? You did a job, you were paid for that job - consulting fee. Why do you deserve a bonus for doing that job? Why doesn't the client deserve a discount instead?
Excellent question.
In previous jobs for some residential clients or non-profits I literally gave them extra discount for using the affiliates.
Don't misunderstand me, I literally have 3 affiliates to my name. Amazon, InMotion, and I think VULTR. I signed up BECAUSE I love them, not because of wanting the most kickbacks. I only think of it as free money. But obviously this raises a lot of ethical questions for people.
Again, this isn't about you - this is more - would some stranger think you're taking advantage of them... if they paid you $50 for an opinion, and if they buy a product on your opinion list you get affiliate kickback money - will they be OK with that? it's about what the other guy thinks.. not what you think.
Hell I think the "for Dummy's" series is a horrible name the first time I saw those I thought it would tank.. what the hell do I know? Look around today, there are dozens of 'for Dummy's' books, clearly other people thought the name was catchy, and it worked.
If somebody says my service is $250, but if you buy from Amazon, I will only charge $235 sounds really sketchy to me.
Sketchy, but honest. So not unethical. But certainly weird and/or sketchy.
Sketchy is not a nice feeling to save $20
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@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@scottalanmiller said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
@guyinpv said in Home business ideas for transition out of 9-5?:
But I don't see myself as the "reseller" part. I don't resell, I just throw out a link and tell them this is my partner link, if you want to give an extra tip. No pressure.
This is how I read this....
I don't see myself as a reseller. I just resell.
Um... what?
I read the term "resell" as that I buy the product myself and resell it to the customer, perhaps with markup. Or that I use white-label products and rebrand it, resell, with markup.
I don't see how an affiliate link is "reselling".
Fair enough. It's selling, not reselling, technically. You would be a seller or VAS. But people just call it a reseller when someone does this. It's incorrect, you are correct. Reseller is a sloppy term, but industry standard, whether you resell or just coordinate and get paid for the process. 99% of resellers don't actually resell. That's actually quite uncommon outside of little stores. When IT people say reseller, they don't mean people who buy and resell (but don't rule them out, either.)
