Web Application VS Windows Application
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@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
What difference does it make at this point?
The biggest thing is the risk of technical debt. Paying to make code that locks you into the Windows ecosystem when you could be making code that doesn't, regardless of your current use case, is just reckless. Writing native apps when they are unnecessary ties you to more expensive resources, reduces options and is backwards looking. It increases risks without providing benefits (except in those 5% of cases where you need a local resource in a way that you can't get in another way, like for video editing or system maintenance apps.) Even many of those things are finding ways to use the web server to do system tasks and not needing native apps, either.
Think about what companies write as bespoke software. I've never seen a company make bespoke software that would benefit from being native. And effectively I've never seen bespoke software that wouldn't have benefited from being web enabled. Do you have an example of any real world bespoke software development where a native app would have been beneficial or is beneficial compared to what is available on modern web apps?
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@scottalanmiller said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
...but they still have their C++ native Windows apps
Not for two generations they haven't. Last one was Office 2010.
Wikipedia says that 2013 was made in C++
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Assuming that Office is written for a web browser, then what keeps it from just working on Linux?
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@scottalanmiller said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
...but they still have their C++ native Windows apps
Not for two generations they haven't. Last one was Office 2010.
What is your source for this? We are completely talking past each other.
My criticisms are for containerized "web apps" using tools like Electron. They are written in Javascript and Node for the most part and much more limited OS APIs than native apps get.
Every source I can find says Windows desktop MS Office is still a C++ app, it ain't a JS web app in a frame!
If you're saying that their C++ app runs inside some kind of container, that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about web languages (JS, HTML, CSS, Node, Meteor, React, et al) running in a container as a desktop app. Versus apps written in general languages Visual C++, C#, VB, Objective C, etc.
If a C++ app is running inside it's own sandbox/frame/whatever, that isn't what I'm talking about. -
@scottalanmiller said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Do you have an example of any real world bespoke software development where a native app would have been beneficial or is beneficial compared to what is available on modern web apps?
Up until recent years the only way I can think of to develop cross-platform applications from the getgo were using Java, or Adobe Air. Of course it could be done with C, C++ if the programmers were careful.
The only reason I can come up with is programmer resources, convenience, time, budget.
I developed a C# app that only one employee needed for a specific purpose on their Windows workstation. This is when MS had released C# Express for free. Having come from Visual Basic, the move to C# wasn't as bad as trying to move to C++ so it was fairly easy to get used to.
Given the fact that the app was only needed in Windows, and that my skill was VB and resources C# Express was free, there was no reason to plunge gung-ho into trying to create this master, cross-compiling, super web app universal tool for this situation. It would have cost me time, more learning, more testing, additional environments to develop and test compiled code, etc etc. So it made sense on many fronts to just create the WIndows-only C# Express app.
In any case I can't really answer your question because the only real limitation regarding cross platform is the availability and/or need for the OS-specific API. So no I can't think of an OS-specific API or library that would be absolutely required for a project and thus make it impossible to program for other OSes too.
Perhaps something with graphics subsystems or deep file system abilities. If you have an app that specifically deals with enhanced features of Ext4, then perhaps there might be no way to get all the same functions on a Windows port on NTFS?
For example Ext2Fsd is a Windows app that only has basic Ext4 support and can only have read-only access to a Ext4 drive. OS API limitations?
These deeper APIs are the only thing I can think of that make an app locked to a platform. A "registry editor" app makes sense in Windows, not Mac and Linux. Linux firewall tools or a CRON utility doesn't make sense in Windows. -
@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@scottalanmiller said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
...but they still have their C++ native Windows apps
Not for two generations they haven't. Last one was Office 2010.
What is your source for this? We are completely talking past each other.
MS announced that they were doing it before the 2013 release. It's very obvious just in looking at and using MS Office 2013 and later. That's why the big leap backwards in functionality, they wrote a whole new code base to be web enabled. But that's why their hosted app is rapidly becoming a mirror of the local one... same code base. If you use the current MS Office, it's really easy to see that it acts like a modern web app with just everything that shows a browser totally hidden.
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@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
If you're saying that their C++ app runs inside some kind of container, that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about web languages (JS, HTML, CSS, Node, Meteor, React, et al) running in a container as a desktop app. Versus apps written in general languages Visual C++, C#, VB, Objective C, etc.
The INTERFACE would need to be in HTML5, obviously. But the back end can be anything, C# is very popular for web apps.
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@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
For example Ext2Fsd is a Windows app that only has basic Ext4 support and can only have read-only access to a Ext4 drive. OS API limitations?
Right, but that's a system utility... neither a business tool nor a bespoke application. There is no question that the WIndows defragmenter or an AV product need to be native apps. But bespoke business tools... the stuff that businesses build for internal use... that's what the context is.
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@guyinpv said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
These deeper APIs are the only thing I can think of that make an app locked to a platform. A "registry editor" app makes sense in Windows, not Mac and Linux. Linux firewall tools or a CRON utility doesn't make sense in Windows.
All the same things, though.... OS tooling for the IT team to use to manage the OS. Take away the OS and there is no need for the tools. The tools are not apps for the end users and no company is making them themselves for internal use.
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Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
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@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
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@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
100% agree.
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@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
Are you sure? What makes you think that the Adobe Cloud means that the apps are Web Apps and not just a subscription service with cloud components?
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@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
Adobe Cloud is still 100% native apps. Web apps is not related to subscription pricing.
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@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
Are you sure? What makes you think that the Adobe Cloud means that the apps are Web Apps and not just a subscription service with cloud components?
I don't, think that Adobe Cloud means the apps are magically Web Apps instead of native. Heck, the Adobe Cloud would be a LOT more valuable if they were web apps!
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@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
Are you sure? What makes you think that the Adobe Cloud means that the apps are Web Apps and not just a subscription service with cloud components?
I don't, think that Adobe Cloud means the apps are magically Web Apps instead of native. Heck, the Adobe Cloud would be a LOT more valuable if they were web apps!
Not to nit-pick, then how does Adobe's Adobe Cloud start them in that direction?
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@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
Are you sure? What makes you think that the Adobe Cloud means that the apps are Web Apps and not just a subscription service with cloud components?
I don't, think that Adobe Cloud means the apps are magically Web Apps instead of native. Heck, the Adobe Cloud would be a LOT more valuable if they were web apps!
Not to nit-pick, then how does Adobe's Adobe Cloud start them in that direction?
Well, I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that, but just as a (former) Adobe customer, having to download that bloated mess of stuff is a pain at best. With our internet connections around here you might as well forget about it at one location, and the other would at least download it over a weekend.
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@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@travisdh1 said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Scott do you hear about companies porting apps like Photoshop or Final Cut over to Web Apps?
I haven't yet, but that's the direction Adobe started with their "Adobe Cloud". Great, I get to pay twice as much to use you're software now. I'll stick with GIMP and Blender for now, unless someone gives me a valid reason they need one of the Adobe apps for 1-2 months.
Are you sure? What makes you think that the Adobe Cloud means that the apps are Web Apps and not just a subscription service with cloud components?
I don't, think that Adobe Cloud means the apps are magically Web Apps instead of native. Heck, the Adobe Cloud would be a LOT more valuable if they were web apps!
Not to nit-pick, then how does Adobe's Adobe Cloud start them in that direction?
Well, I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that, but just as a (former) Adobe customer, having to download that bloated mess of stuff is a pain at best. With our internet connections around here you might as well forget about it at one location, and the other would at least download it over a weekend.
Web applications does not imply that anything is downloaded, though.
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Right, the whole point of this thread is basically apps that platform independent. Apps that will run in an HTML5 browser
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@Dashrender said in Web Application VS Windows Application:
Right, the whole point of this thread is basically apps that platform independent. Apps that will run in an HTML5 browser
At least as their interface. The entire app doesn't have to be there.
