Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions
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@coliver said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@coliver said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@johnhooks said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@coliver said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
I see another concern about either plan for @hobbit666
Windows Licensing.With a non HA setup, you can assign two Windows Server licenses to each hosts (each license gets two VMs). But in DRDB setup, you'd have to license each host for 8 VMs (i.e. 4 licenses for each) because of the possibility of running all VMs in one location.
Good point (assuming Windows is used, XD doesn't require that as it can do Linux desktops.)
I suppose, but do aren't there free solutions for the citrix farm stuff ?
Not really, there are some inexpensive competitors, Parallels 2X is what I used in the past. But XenDesktop is the best in the VDI and remote desktop realms. The management interface is pretty fantastic.
Ya we have it here. The new gold image in every session is awesome (or whatever it's actually called, I don't manage it).
We use VMware Horizon View here, it is pretty good as well very similar to XenDesktop. Version 7 is catching up and has the feature you are talking about.
Is XenDesktop a full Windows machine (or Linux) for each user? based off a shared image?
Yes, it is a true VDI solution. XenApp does the individual applications. They also have a RDS style system, although I can't remember the name of it.
RDS is built off of XenApp.
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs assuming that the hardware on a single host has enough resources. In that case you can manage fewer VMs by using DRDB, but assuming Windows servers, you'll still need all those licenses for both boxes.
A single VM handles a LOT because it does nothing but direct people to the right VDI VM. One on each host is likely plenty.
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@coliver said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@coliver said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@johnhooks said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@coliver said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
I see another concern about either plan for @hobbit666
Windows Licensing.With a non HA setup, you can assign two Windows Server licenses to each hosts (each license gets two VMs). But in DRDB setup, you'd have to license each host for 8 VMs (i.e. 4 licenses for each) because of the possibility of running all VMs in one location.
Good point (assuming Windows is used, XD doesn't require that as it can do Linux desktops.)
I suppose, but do aren't there free solutions for the citrix farm stuff ?
Not really, there are some inexpensive competitors, Parallels 2X is what I used in the past. But XenDesktop is the best in the VDI and remote desktop realms. The management interface is pretty fantastic.
Ya we have it here. The new gold image in every session is awesome (or whatever it's actually called, I don't manage it).
We use VMware Horizon View here, it is pretty good as well very similar to XenDesktop. Version 7 is catching up and has the feature you are talking about.
Is XenDesktop a full Windows machine (or Linux) for each user? based off a shared image?
Yes, it is a true VDI solution. XenApp does the individual applications. They also have a RDS style system, although I can't remember the name of it.
RDS is built off of XenApp.
That's interesting I wasn't aware of that. I thought they had done some partnership or licensing with App-V as well.
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs assuming that the hardware on a single host has enough resources. In that case you can manage fewer VMs by using DRDB, but assuming Windows servers, you'll still need all those licenses for both boxes.
A single VM handles a LOT because it does nothing but direct people to the right VDI VM. One on each host is likely plenty.
I thought he said he wasn't doing VDI, but instead is providing a remote desktop?
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs assuming that the hardware on a single host has enough resources. In that case you can manage fewer VMs by using DRDB, but assuming Windows servers, you'll still need all those licenses for both boxes.
VMs for XenDesktop are considered connection brokers. They line up users with virtual desktops. They are like the pimps of the VDI world.
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs assuming that the hardware on a single host has enough resources. In that case you can manage fewer VMs by using DRDB, but assuming Windows servers, you'll still need all those licenses for both boxes.
A single VM handles a LOT because it does nothing but direct people to the right VDI VM. One on each host is likely plenty.
I thought he said he wasn't doing VDI, but instead is providing a remote desktop?
XenDesktop = VDI
XenApp = Terminal Services -
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs
Yeah most blogs I've been working off is each VM should be 4vcpu, 24GB RAM, for 30-40 users, we have 250 so 7-8VM's. To keep server costs down I was going to use two referb servers.
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@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
The two server are for Citrix XenDesktop. Each server will have 4 VM's giving 250 users Desktop Sessions (not VDI more RDS). The idea for VSAN/Replication between the two is if one host goes down the remaining host can spin the 4 VM's up so we always have 8 VMs running until the host is fixed.
Is was just going to use XenServer as the Hypervisor as it's FREE and does a lot as @Scott and others keep mentioning
@scottalanmiller He specifically said, not VDI more RDS... but he did mention XenDesktop right before that.
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@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs
Yeah most blogs I've been working off is each VM should be 4vcpu, 24GB RAM, for 30-40 users, we have 250 so 7-8VM's. To keep server costs down I was going to use two referb servers.
Being refurb doesn't matter as long as each host as enough resources to handle the whole load, then there's the licensing.
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
It's still a terminal server. VDI is a remote desktop too.
Here are the terms:
Technologies: terminal server vs. VDI
Microsoft products: RDS is their terminal server
Citrix Products: XenApp is their terminal server, XenDesktop is their VDI
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs
Yeah most blogs I've been working off is each VM should be 4vcpu, 24GB RAM, for 30-40 users, we have 250 so 7-8VM's. To keep server costs down I was going to use two referb servers.
Being refurb doesn't matter as long as each host as enough resources to handle the whole load, then there's the licensing.
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
RD using XenDesktop as it handles traffic better (so we've been told lol) some sites only have 800K connection to us and for 5-6 users. yeah going to look at "beefier" server maybe.
Any people back on topic!!!
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@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs
Yeah most blogs I've been working off is each VM should be 4vcpu, 24GB RAM, for 30-40 users, we have 250 so 7-8VM's. To keep server costs down I was going to use two referb servers.
Being refurb doesn't matter as long as each host as enough resources to handle the whole load, then there's the licensing.
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
RD using XenDesktop as it handles traffic better (so we've been told lol) some sites only have 800K connection to us and for 5-6 users. yeah going to look at "beefier" server maybe.
Any people back on topic!!!
really? I've always heard that ICA was way better than RDS for a remote connection protocol. Though I know RDS has gotten better over the years.
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This would have been a great opportunity to split this conversation, although I don't really see how it started.
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
It's still a terminal server. VDI is a remote desktop too.
Here are the terms:
Technologies: terminal server vs. VDI
Microsoft products: RDS is their terminal server
Citrix Products: XenApp is their terminal server, XenDesktop is their VDI
Yes I did know this, but he specifically said no VDI, so there was obvious confusion.
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs
Yeah most blogs I've been working off is each VM should be 4vcpu, 24GB RAM, for 30-40 users, we have 250 so 7-8VM's. To keep server costs down I was going to use two referb servers.
Being refurb doesn't matter as long as each host as enough resources to handle the whole load, then there's the licensing.
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
RD using XenDesktop as it handles traffic better (so we've been told lol) some sites only have 800K connection to us and for 5-6 users. yeah going to look at "beefier" server maybe.
Any people back on topic!!!
really? I've always heard that ICA was way better than RDS for a remote connection protocol. Though I know RDS has gotten better over the years.
Yup, ICA is the best. RDP is based on ICA but crippled.
RDP and ICA are protocols.
RDS and XenApp are terminal servers. Don't mix RDS and RDP together, they are unrelated.
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@hobbit666 said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
Because no desktop means no sales and one sale could be £100K so we need all 8 VM's running during office hours.
Yes 4 VM's could I guess run all 250 users for a day but if there is a FREE method of ensuring the VM's are there ready to run in their latest state i'll take it
I have heard/seen issues where a VM maxes out at x number of users - so I understand the need for more than say 2 VM's in the farm. So perhaps it's the case that you can't live with fewer than 7 or 8 VMs
Yeah most blogs I've been working off is each VM should be 4vcpu, 24GB RAM, for 30-40 users, we have 250 so 7-8VM's. To keep server costs down I was going to use two referb servers.
Being refurb doesn't matter as long as each host as enough resources to handle the whole load, then there's the licensing.
So, are you doing Remote Desktop (old name Terminal Services) or VDI?
RD using XenDesktop as it handles traffic better (so we've been told lol) some sites only have 800K connection to us and for 5-6 users. yeah going to look at "beefier" server maybe.
Any people back on topic!!!
really? I've always heard that ICA was way better than RDS for a remote connection protocol. Though I know RDS has gotten better over the years.
Yup, ICA is the best. RDP is based on ICA but crippled.
RDP and ICA are protocols.
RDS and XenApp are terminal servers. Don't mix RDS and RDP together, they are unrelated.
Thanks for the correction.
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ICA is the primary reason that people pay for the XenApp suite.
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
ICA is the primary reason that people pay for the XenApp suite.
Is there an open source version of XenApp?
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@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
ICA is the primary reason that people pay for the XenApp suite.
really? Is it still that much better than RDP? I can see the management parts being worth the fees, didn't realize that ICA was still that far ahead to the be primary driver for a purchase.
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@Dashrender said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
@scottalanmiller said in Xen Orchestra on Ubuntu 15.10 - Complete installation instructions:
ICA is the primary reason that people pay for the XenApp suite.
really? Is it still that much better than RDP? I can see the management parts being worth the fees, didn't realize that ICA was still that far ahead to the be primary driver for a purchase.
RDP is a crippled version of ICA. That is what it is. They are not two separate technologies competing. Citrix makes it, removes some capabilities and lets MS license it. So it remains, and will remain, ahead.
