Running Quickbooks is like....
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
Exactly. And no one would consider thinking of them as serious doctors or their patients as taking their health seriously. One is there to "feel good" temporarily and the other is to make money taking advantage of that. Neither is there for the purpose of providing or receiving meaningful healthcare.
Still, those doctors are in the majority. For me to find a good doctor I respect is a rarity. Same situation with QB. Pablum and tradition is good enough for the majority.
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But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
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The average business, the ones in the majority, fail. We don't give respect for failure, right? Not that failure is "wrong" it's just... failure. So anyone using "the majority" as a bar for wanting respect should not be getting rewarded.
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@scottalanmiller said:
But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
Money - you'll never get rich making a product that caters only to the top 1% most logical and rational. QB exists and makes money because they make a product that caters to the other 99%. Same for any field, any product - for you to bemoan that is just shouting at the tide.
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
Money - you'll never get rich making a product that caters only to the top 1% most logical and rational. QB exists and makes money because they make a product that caters to the other 99%. Same for any field, any product - for you to bemoan that is just shouting at the tide.
But the thread is about respect, not money. We don't respect con men, mafia, crooks or brown nosers - even though they often get rich.
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If our goal was to get rich at any cost, we'd not work in IT (or social media.)
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Steve Ballmer is rich, no one respects him. He might be able to buy people to tell him what he wants to hear, but he can never go to a grocery store and not have people snickering behind his back. Money can buy you yes men, but it can't buy you respect.
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For the majority, getting rich is the goal. Respect, again, only matters to the rational 1%. The true tragedy of it all is that the rational 1% are smart enough to see that the system is f[moderated], but not smart enough to come up with a solution.
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For the majority, they only want enough respect or integrity to get away with what they want. It's not an end in and of itself like it is for you and me.
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We should not have to preface each IT discussion with "assuming we aren't trying to be scammers but actually want to do our jobs." We need to assume that from the outset. If we didn't care about IT or business, we'd just bring in vendors to do all of the "work" and get kick backs on everything and sell the businesses up the river. We don't need to discuss how to do that, everyone knows how to do it and the "average" IT pro already does this and the "average" business owner can't figure out that there is no IT being done and only his wallet getting a siphon attached to it. Clueless, hubris filled business owners being taken advantage of by a completely standard model of IT scamming. But people doing that have no need to discuss IT. Business owners doing that have no need to go to business forums. It doesn't take thought or effort to live in that world. It also doesn't make any money.
But assuming that our starting point is that we want to do good jobs for people who want to succeed... then the majority actions are only relevant as being a warning sign, a red flag, that if the majority do it, it's almost certainly a bad idea.
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Again - succeed at what? Most business people just want to make money. They don't want to have high standards or make the world a better place.
You're preaching to the choir with me, but you're most everyone else doesn't give a shit. Does QB get the job done? Is it what my accountant uses? Good enough. IT guys complains? who gives a shit, I pay his salary.
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@Nic said:
Again - succeed at what? Most business people just want to make money. They don't want to have high standards or make the world a better place.
Success at making money. Using QB does not make them money, it loses them money. Maybe not enough money to go under, but is "not going under" or "not losing too much" a mark of financial success?
We are specifically talking about making money. QB stands in the way of that.
We already know that the majority of SMBs go out of business and the majority use QB just before doing so. So if we go with nothing but "majorities" then using QB is the best way to lose money.
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@Nic said:
Does QB get the job done? Is it what my accountant uses? Good enough. IT guys complains?
Ah, but let's define "gets the job done." Is the job to "siphon my money to the accountants?" Then yes, it does that well.
Is the job to "help me make money" then no, it fails miserably.
What is the "job" that we are saying it does or doesn't do?
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@Nic said:
For the majority, getting rich is the goal. Respect, again, only matters to the rational 1%. The true tragedy of it all is that the rational 1% are smart enough to see that the system is f****d, but not smart enough to come up with a solution.
I don't think the issue is that they're only so smart. The issue is that it's 1% smart trying to battle 99% mixture of greedy, ignorant, and apathetic. You can't reason with them, because they are greedy, ignorant, and apathetic, and you can't overpower them because those with the money/power use their money/power to maintain status quo.
Can't we just turn this thread back to bashing QB for sucking, and not having a whining fit about them being successful despite their sucking?
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So, you are saying for a smallish SOHO who just wants to do simple bookkeeping
- There are MUCH better products than QB
- They should switch accountants.
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There are so many other options out there now. And an accountant can't force you to use anything...
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@scottalanmiller said:
The important thing, IMHO, is making sure that they understand that IT does not approve and that we see it as them not taking their business seriously.You post this particular thing a lot. "not taking their business seriously"
Do you have any non IT functions that we are use as examples of them not taking the business seriously so we can show why we feel this way, and why we are valid our beliefs?
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@Dashrender said:
Do you have any non IT functions that we are use as examples of them not taking the business seriously so we can show why we feel this way, and why we are valid our beliefs?
That's a good question. I alluded to that the other day.
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
QB dominates the market because they make the software for the preferences of the accountants, not the sysadmins. If that's what your accountant uses, as an SMB, that's what you use. You have no choice.
Of course you do, you have the choice to use an accountant who also takes what they do seriously. Why would you ever chose an accountant that isn't serious about accounting? That's totally crazy.
Doesn't matter when they have 97% of the accountants locked up.
It still matters to the businesses. In any field only a small percentage are really any good or take what they do seriously. Most are just there to coast, take advantage of others not looking to do a good job, etc. That most accountants are not very good or don't care about their jobs or their customers is not surprising. That businesses don't care about themselves and keep using them isn't surprising either. But none of that means that IT pros should look the other way and just act like one bad decision after another isn't bad. Once we do that, we are acting just like those accountants.
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Why does your accountant need to be local?
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@Dashrender said:
Why does your accountant need to be local?
How else are they going to take anyone to lunch?
