Rapid Desktop Replacement
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Thanks @Chris
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@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller I should have quoted more of your post, it seemed to imply setting up the whole shooting match. I agree VL is an easy way to save some time.
I've not talked about imaging SYSTEMS at all in the thread. Only that using an image based deployment is faster and easier than using OEM install media where you have to them remove the bloatware after the install.
But you're forgetting that now instead of removing bloatware, you have to download and install drivers and all the Windows updates that would have been part of the base OEM install.
Those are negatives, but not ones that should EVER stop you from doing it anyway. And besides, you can easily add the drivers and software installation packages (not installed, just the installers) to the image. Then once the image is in place, install the drivers from your folder, install the local copy of the apps.. and away you go..
So this slightly updated image, yet no where near very custom, might take you an hour or so to get ready... it will save you hugely in the long.
You can take it even further by completely updating Windows updates before take the image, a process that even a new OEM Dell install normally takes 1+ hours of downloading to do... you've just saved that on every machine you deploy.
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@Dashrender said:
I've not talked about imaging SYSTEMS at all in the thread. Only that using an image based deployment is faster and easier than using OEM install media where you have to them remove the bloatware after the install.
Drivers are trivial. You stick them on a USB stick if you need, or on the network if you don't. And if you get past the most basic level of effort, you build them into a disc image and use that. I've not forgotten that, I just see it as so little effort that it would normally not need to be mentioned. I would need to update and manage the drivers from the OEM disk and need to run Windows updates anyway. So I don't see either of those as being more work and if I had to do this more than once it would move from break even to benefit there too.
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@Dashrender said:
So this slightly updated image, yet no where near very custom, might take you an hour or so to get ready... it will save you hugely in the long.
You can take it even further by completely updating Windows updates before take the image, a process that even a new OEM Dell install normally takes 1+ hours of downloading to do... you've just saved that on every machine you deploy.
In a lot of cases this is great. But there are plenty where it is overkill too. Drivers on USB are just so easy for a small business.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@MattSpeller said:
@scottalanmiller I should have quoted more of your post, it seemed to imply setting up the whole shooting match. I agree VL is an easy way to save some time.
I've not talked about imaging SYSTEMS at all in the thread. Only that using an image based deployment is faster and easier than using OEM install media where you have to them remove the bloatware after the install.
But you're forgetting that now instead of removing bloatware, you have to download and install drivers and all the Windows updates that would have been part of the base OEM install.
Those are negatives, but not ones that should EVER stop you from doing it anyway. And besides, you can easily add the drivers and software installation packages (not installed, just the installers) to the image. Then once the image is in place, install the drivers from your folder, install the local copy of the apps.. and away you go..
So this slightly updated image, yet no where near very custom, might take you an hour or so to get ready... it will save you hugely in the long.
You can take it even further by completely updating Windows updates before take the image, a process that even a new OEM Dell install normally takes 1+ hours of downloading to do... you've just saved that on every machine you deploy.
Dell offers .CAB files for each model with all drivers. You can either automatically install them or extract them with 7zip and let device manager install them.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Drivers are trivial.
For you, maybe. Not for me. Maybe because I'm not really an IT pro, but drivers are my biggest issue with clean installs. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
HP isn't bad. Lenovo was nightmare. It has an 'update manager' which I installed first, but that failed to download all the drivers. And I spent hours trying to find a WWAN driver. I don't think it actually exists on Lenovo's website. In the end I gave up.
Uninstalling HP's bloatware takes about 10 minutes, if that.
Now if I was doing a re-install, I'd probably use a clean version of Windows, rather than the HP recovery media. But the fact that the PCs comes pre-installed out of the box means sticking with this and not doing a clean install when I purchase the PC is faster. You may have issues with bloatware (I don't see why), but I don't speed is a valid reason for doing a clean install.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
Tip here, if you go to device manager and click on any device. Go into properties --> Details --> Select Hardware ID's. This will give you VEN and DEV numbers. Go to pcidatabase.com and put either number in and it will tell you the manufacturer and device, helps me a lot when I'm not sure what driver to get.
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Thanks. I think that will help.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
For you, maybe. Not for me. Maybe because I'm not really an IT pro, but drivers are my biggest issue with clean installs. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Well, let me put it another way, drivers are the same amount of work either way because I need the updated ones. So using the OEM disc or the VL disc I still need to get the updated and selected drivers and the difference between the two processes is trivial.
But the overall work, let's say I have an HP desktop, I just go to HP's site, go to the page for that machine, select the OS from a dropdown and download the latest versions of the drivers again and store them in a folder on a USB stick.
When I install the desktop from VL standard image (even if vanilla) I just pop in that USB stick and click on the drivers, they install themselves.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
For example, I do a clean Windows 7 install. It doesn't have a network adapter driver. I go to hp.com and type in the model of the PC. It gives me two different options. I don't know which one is the card in my particular PC. How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
Nothing wrong with getting both if you don't know. Having extra drivers isn't bad, they will just be unused. One or two extra will do nothing. Thousands of extra would use of disk space, but keep in mind your generic image installs many thousands of drivers as it is for things you do not have, a handful extra would not even be noticed. So no harm done if you get two NIC drivers instead of one. And doing it a few times you would figure out which one is needed naturally (the one that turns on the network after doing it) and if you have more than one of the same desktop you might need both anyway as they might vary between the models that you have.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
HP isn't bad. Lenovo was nightmare. It has an 'update manager' which I installed first, but that failed to download all the drivers. And I spent hours trying to find a WWAN driver. I don't think it actually exists on Lenovo's website. In the end I gave up.
Lenovo specifically we've gotten tainted drivers from and is actually a great example of why even vendor-installed bloatware or malware may not be removable. Because of Lenovo we are so much more wary (remember they got caught twice using their OEM installs to potentially spy on customers and steal data) of using the OEM discs.
But in both cases, you would want the updated, patched drivers (whether OEM, hardware vendor or MS direct) rather than what comes on the discs.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
You may have issues with bloatware (I don't see why), but I don't speed is a valid reason for doing a clean install.
One thing is that bloatware removal is an "everytime" activity and driver download is a one time. Another is that one requires the storage and management of individual discs. The other does not. Even if you have a good system for that, it becomes cumbersome over time.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
How do I find out? The other issue is that downloading files from HP.com is just about the slowest website in the world. It can take hours.
But you...
- Need to do it anyway or your machines are unpatched and..
- It's a one time activity in the background rather than while someone is waiting on a PC to have bloatware removed.
So the download time isn't a factor unless you didn't prepare for installs and even then, it's only on the first one, right?
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@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
but as imaging rights for a full company are only about $120, it doesn't take much IT time saving to justify.
Is that per machine?
Per company.
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That's why I said that the price for a full company is just $120. It is so low, only a single person business would not do it automatically. It literally borders on the crazy for companies of any size to even contemplate any other option.
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@scottalanmiller said:
That's why I said that the price for a full company is just $120. It is so low, only a single person business would not do it automatically. It literally borders on the crazy for companies of any size to even contemplate any other option.
Now I think the levels of MS licensing have me confused again.
What is VL exactly?
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VL = Volume Licensing
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Honestly, something I would recommend is:
If you are going to use Windows, stick with Microsoft recommended approaches, practices, tools and ecosystem.
That includes things like moving to VL licensing, getting Office 365 for those features, etc. If you are paying the MS premium and trying to avoid the things that make it valuable you will normally lose, big time. It's one of those bizarre things where people assume that they need to have Windows but often don't want to trust their chosen vendor and go off doing their own thing and getting less than negligible value from the platform.
Similarly, if you don't want to use all HP or Dell parts, why did you buy servers and services that are a cost premium and all inclusive? Go with SuperMicro, part out your systems and save the money if you are not going to get the value of the ecosystems.
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That means, for example, with only rare exception if you are above 15 users (and/or desktops) that you use Active Directory, as an example.
