Healthcare Sharing Networks - Have You Used One?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
10 stitches and a few shots costs me $850
That's the other thing, you never actually get covered by insurance. We've had insurance for years, yet always end up paying more out of pocket than if we were in another country without insurance. How does that work?
Well, I'm on an HA, I would have expected to pay around 20% if I had HMO coverage.
Considering that even the cheapest US insurance is many times the cost of the healthcare taxes in other countries that cover everything... doesn't that seem high?
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I'll agree that our healthcare costs are out of control - but I have to stop and ask myself why is that? Where does that money go?
I've asked where the greatest portions of our expenses are for our smallish medical practice (we net around 12 Million a year). The top three things are salaries, insurance for staff, malpractice insurance. If I recall this takes around 60-70% of net revenue.
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@Dashrender said:
I'll agree that our healthcare costs are out of control - but I have to stop and ask myself why is that? Where does that money go?
Private companies that siphon it off. Tons goes to the unnecessary insurance business. That is a HUGE business for a reason. A bit goes to the government. Tons goes to the pharmaceutical industry. Lots goes to the doctor's own insurance as the system encourages lawsuits like crazy. Tons goes to billing overhead. The US system needs 20 people for every tiny transaction. The system is very complicated making it expensive and extremely corrupt making it SO much more expensive.
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@Dashrender said:
I've asked where the greatest portions of our expenses are for our smallish medical practice (we net around 12 Million a year). The top three things are salaries, insurance for staff, malpractice insurance. If I recall this takes around 60-70% of net revenue.
And that is a small part of the picture. Most of the money is gone long before a doctor's office gets anything.
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People talk about other countries and how they are so corrupt and in the US people say that things are not corrupt and that corruption does not affect them day to day - which is insane. I'm convinced that corruption has become so common and insidious that Americans have stopped identifying it as something bad. At least in Italy, for example, people still realize that there is big time corruption.
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Money gets soaked up by the insurance industry and it's a complete waste. People indirectly profiting & betting on others being sick disgusts me.
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OH yeah.. the insurance companies themselves are definitely where a huge portion of the money goes.
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@Dashrender said:
OH yeah.. the insurance companies themselves are definitely where a huge portion of the money goes.
Considering how huge and numerous they are and how many employees they have. Every single person in the industry represents someone siphoning money out of healtcare as profit instead of you getting healthcare for your money. It's a huge industry and every single person working in it represents a terrible corruption of the economic and healthcare systems. Not one of them has a purpose and all they do is stand between you and healthcare.
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@scottalanmiller label me a flaming red communist but I'd Nationalize alllllllll the hospitals and clinics. In Canada and the USA. Brings it's own set of challenges but lighting the insurance industry on fire would be something for everyone to rally around.
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Isn't privatization the existing problem? There is no public oversight. Everyone can do anything that they want because healthcare is seen as a product to be marked up, rather than as a critical public utility.
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@scottalanmiller good grief I got so upset I got my merds wixed - Nationalize. Apologies. Corrected below.
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LOL, that makes more sense.
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lol all those darned privatizing communists, taking power away from the government and giving it to private industry. Need a face palm emoji for epic brain farts like that.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Isn't privatization the existing problem? There is no public oversight. Everyone can do anything that they want because healthcare is seen as a product to be marked up, rather than as a critical public utility.
we still argue on this point. Though I could be convinced to go the other side if it was heavily regulated like power companies - and should be completely non for profit. But our government has shown time and time again how it also can't be trusted to do the right thing.
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I was wondering what weird communism they had up there in Canada.
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And free market capitalism only really doesn't work when government, etc get in the way. If the big dogs can use the government to paperwork to death the little companies, those little companies never stand a chance to grow based on the merits of their company and take on the big dogs.
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Technically you don't head any further towards communism or away from capitalism by nationalising healthcare as, by definition, it is a utility and cannot be related to capitalism. It's actually anti-capitalistic to attempt to do so as it is not a free market and treating it as such is actually a form of corruption, not capitalism in any way. Capitalism requires a free market or else it is a sham and a sham capitalism is actually the thing farthest from.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Technically you don't head any further towards communism or away from capitalism by nationalising healthcare as, by definition, it is a utility and cannot be related to capitalism. It's actually anti-capitalistic to attempt to do so as it is not a free market and treating it as such is actually a form of corruption, not capitalism in any way. Capitalism requires a free market or else it is a sham and a sham capitalism is actually the thing farthest from.
absolutely - our system is completely broke - as you said - it's sham capitalism.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Isn't privatization the existing problem? There is no public oversight. Everyone can do anything that they want because healthcare is seen as a product to be marked up, rather than as a critical public utility.
we still argue on this point. Though I could be convinced to go the other side if it was heavily regulated like power companies - and should be completely non for profit. But our government has shown time and time again how it also can't be trusted to do the right thing.
I don't believe that that is true. The government is rarely given a chance to do something like this and when it is it is heavily curtailed. What you have to keep in mind is that the government has equal influence whether we privatize or nationalize or whatever. What changes is not the amount that the government is involved, but the number of others that are involved. You can't remove the government from the system, but you can reduce the corruption it hides behind and the problems introduced by other layers which both enables and exposes the government.
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@Dashrender said:
And free market capitalism only really doesn't work when government, etc get in the way. If the big dogs can use the government to paperwork to death the little companies, those little companies never stand a chance to grow based on the merits of their company and take on the big dogs.
Correct, government has to let it work. AND the government has to handle the things that are outside of capitalism. Something things just can never be that.... the legal system, for example, must always be part of the government.
